If you are a progressive,you are crazy,maybe evil

[grouchy]

Just curious. I wonder how many kids in Oregon have opted for sex change operation since 1971? It would be interesting research for some of you that spend a lot of time doing research. But, I bet you won't.

[grouchy]

btw, I forgot to say good morning. It is really nice out here this morning, but it is going to get hot as heck later.

[millergrovesue]

Just curious. I wonder how many kids in Oregon have opted for sex change operation since 1971? It would be interesting research for some of you that spend a lot of time doing research. But, I bet you won't.

Great question.

And good morning to you. Yep, not pleasant out there. All we have to do is endure the next about 8 weeks and it will be pleasant again........at least at night.

[ralph]

I think that it is the INTENT of the new law that is the problem rather than the numbers of kids that have actually 'jennerd' their bodies Grouchy . Seems to me that this kind of law takes power from parents and gives the power to people with immature minds . I also think that the practical results will be the creation of another class of people that will have Special Needs that politicians can pander to . As far as numbers that have 'jennered' since 71 , probably not many . Course the new law allowing 15 year olds to 'jenner' without parental consent is just very recent I think , isn't it Grouchy .

[millergrovesue]

Ya might want to check out the Snopes article on this. http://m.snopes.com/oregon-teen-sex-change-law/

It reads, in part, "It’s true that the age of medical consent in Oregon is 15 (whether or not a minor is transgender), and in early 2015 the state of Oregon’s HERC did opt to include gender dysphoria in a list of conditions covered by the state’s Medicaid plans. But publicized claims misled readers and viewers into thinking that a new guideline had approved “sex changes” for teenagers by conflating extant Oregon state policies that were largely unrelated.

In fact, the age of medical consent in Oregon has been 15 since 1971, and gender dysphoria Medicaid coverage changes applied to all residents of the state (not teens specifically). The Fox article (and subsequent iterations) failed to consider the lengthy, arduous process gender reassignment entails or the likelihood that any medical provider would agree to begin such a process on a minor who lacked parental consent. Moreover, the policy change was not enacted 'quietly' (i.e., without notice or disclosure), as the Associated Press had published an article announcing 'Oregon Medicaid to Cover Gender Reassignmen'” nearly a year earlier."

Apparently Fox picked and chose which parts of the issue they would cover. Fair and balanced?

[ralph]

I stick to my thinking rather than Snopes or anyone else . If in fact kids are allowed to 'jenner' at 15 without parental consent then that is a bad thing .

[Castle Doctrine]

I think that it is the INTENT of the new law that is the problem rather than the numbers of kids that have actually 'jennerd' their bodies Grouchy . Seems to me that this kind of law takes power from parents and gives the power to people with immature minds . I also think that the practical results will be the creation of another class of people that will have Special Needs that politicians can pander to . As far as numbers that have 'jennered' since 71 , probably not many . Course the new law allowing 15 year olds to 'jenner' without parental consent is just very recent I think , isn't it Grouchy .

According to the State of Oregon there is no new law...just a new application. After thinking about it yesterday on the road, I think what we have here is a case of unintended consequences. The law was implemented in 1971. At that time very few of us had heard of "trans" anything...certainly not gender. I think it may have been originally intended to give young people access to birth control and reproductive services whether their parents liked it or not, knew or not. That is a whole nother discussion worth having but not here and not now. Does anyone really think that this possibility was ever even considered 45 years ago?

Just to be clear, there is no Oregon Act Allowing Sex Changes for Minors Against Their Parents Wishes...just a 45 year old Oregon law defining the age of medical consent as 15 for the State. Now, this has happened...an unintended consequence it would have been impossible to foresee so long ago. The 15 year old used the system as it was. These things happen. Now that the State knows this can happen they may act to address the issue (if they wish to). That is usually what happens with this sort of thing. Once the pols know there is a problem they adjust the law...probably won't take more than 2-3 years.

[ralph]

REPEAT , like I said , IF in fact there is a law allowing 15 year old kids to 'jenner' without parental consent , then it is a bad law 'cd' .

[Castle Doctrine]

I stick to my thinking rather than Snopes or anyone else . If in fact kids are allowed to 'jenner' at 15 without parental consent then that is a bad thing .

There is no question that in Oregon a 15 year old may begin gender reassignment without parental consent. I have mixed feelings about that as a parent. But, I do know there are increasing numbers of cases where very young people (pre-teen) have this issue of feeling they are not the sex of the body they are in...Hell, I can't even describe it much less imagine what it must feel like. And I am convinced this is real whether I can understand or identify with it or not. I don't know enough to have a meaningful opinion on the present case. But, as a general rule this seems to need some modification maybe.

The whole issue of young people with gender identity issues is so new our society is just beginning to come to grips with it. But, I believe it to be real. We need a frank, open discussion of this. The problem does not need to be reduced to a buzz word (jennered) and some drummed up outrage. When I looked for the original story I was swamped by RW "news" articles designed to mislead and confuse people just like you.

Have you considered that you are saying you will stick with your own, uninformed and pre-manipulated FEELINGS about this story rather than the facts of the matter? It is a classic example of "My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with a bunch of FACTS!" This is just much ado about nothing.

Hey, want to talk about the Washington Post taking an editorial position against teaching Shakespeare? That is another great scare story.

[ralph]

yep , the 'progessives' are evil and crazy , and like I said , IF the law exists allowing 15 year olds to 'jenner' without parental consent then its a bad law 'cd' .

[Castle Doctrine]

REPEAT , like I said , IF in fact there is a law allowing 15 year old kids to 'jenner' without parental consent , then it is a bad law 'cd' .

Yes, I understand what you are saying. But, if pigs flew we would all wear hats too. What we have here is a law that Oregon felt was good (45 years ago) which I am not in a position to judge being called a bad law. I don't know, flawed maybe but not bad. The real problem came when the State put gender identity issues under State Medicaid (or whatever it is called). That was an enabling ruling for these kids.

So, there is no law specifically allowing this. What there is here is an unfortunate confluence of law and administrative application. It just isn't possible to foresee everything possible from 45 years out. If the State of Oregon shares your concerns (and they may well be valid) they will amend the law or regulations. If not, well, it is their State.

Personally, if I am going to get outraged I have a pretty high threshold. Outrage is non-productive and wastes a lot of energy. If I am going to put myself through that I want to be outraged about something real that merits the effort. You know, things like civil forfeiture, exceptions to the Fourth Amendment, idiots annoyed by this flag or that, gun REGISTRATION and the like.

[ralph]

and , I think that the opening post describes the issue and law that I am addressing 'cd' . Not interested talking about Shakespeare or 'snopes' or anything other than the opening posts message , issue or law as described in the opening post 'cd' !!

[ralph]

well , just so you understand 'cd' . Some times you seem to have a hard time understanding . Stick to the threads subject of 15 year olds doing the 'jenner' without parental consent and understanding may be easier for you 'cd' !!

[jellowrestling]

REPEAT , like I said , IF in fact there is a law allowing 15 year old kids to 'jenner' without parental consent , then it is a bad law 'cd' .

Yes, I understand what you are saying. But, if pigs flew we would all wear hats too. What we have here is a law that Oregon felt was good (45 years ago) which I am not in a position to judge being called a bad law. I don't know, flawed maybe but not bad. The real problem came when the State put gender identity issues under State Medicaid (or whatever it is called). That was an enabling ruling for these kids.

So, there is no law specifically allowing this. What there is here is an unfortunate confluence of law and administrative application. It just isn't possible to foresee everything possible from 45 years out. If the State of Oregon shares your concerns (and they may well be valid) they will amend the law or regulations. If not, well, it is their State.

Personally, if I am going to get outraged I have a pretty high threshold. Outrage is non-productive and wastes a lot of energy. If I am going to put myself through that I want to be outraged about something real that merits the effort. You know, things like civil forfeiture, exceptions to the Fourth Amendment, idiots annoyed by this flag or that, gun REGISTRATION and the like.

See, this is the ole' liberal bait and switch.
First, they pass a law. Then years later, they come along and reinterpret it, and PRESTO, some weird new "right" exists that no rational human being would ever in a million years foresee. This is what happens whenever "Progressives" are in charge. And all bureaucracies are riddled with them: they are the petty tyrants who are the fly in every ointment.

[ann jusko]

All I can say (without getting into an argument) is that I'm glad I'm old. I don't like this world anymore. I don't like the morals, the apathy, the disrespect, the foul language. But I will argue that someone who has not had a child can not possibly understand the depth of feeling, of love, of absolute terror of perhaps doing something wrong, of something happening to your child. YOU AND YOUR SPOUSE ARE TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR A TINY HUMAN. I can't tell you how many friends say to me "I can't believe my emotions when I first saw my grandchild. I would immediately give my life for this tiny baby." It IS something that has to be experienced to believe. My kids are what they will probably be the rest of their life. They have been brought up in church and attend now (mostly). Our youngest child has a special needs child. I couldn't be more proud of how she and her husband handle that responsibility AND how their other children do. I trust my children will be fine. I don't want to live one second longer than my husband of 50+ years. We've talked about it but only hope the good Lord with take us together. As I said, the world has changed, our country has changed.

[millergrovesue]

Ann, yours is one of the types of opinions some of the guys on this board despise and deride...............when it is posited by someone with whom they disagree. It's an opinion of pure emotion. I suspect, in this case, none of those will have any problem with the emotion you express..........particularly if they have children.

I understand what you are saying and understand the emotion behind it. As I said before, those of us who do not have children are pretty much done with people telling us "you don't know what it's like". Truth is none of us knows what life is like for anyone else and cannot rightfully speak to their personal experiences or feelings or opinions that arise from them or dismiss them out of hand.

Putting aside emotion, as those same guys always want done when they refuse to accept the validity of emotion with which they don't agree - when the government quits taking my money to put other people's children through school, feed them, pay for their medical care, pay when parents refuse to do what they are supposed to do, etc. etc. I will keep my opinions to myself. Till that happens I'm as entitled to my opinion as anyone else whether or not I have children.

This is not said, as you stated, to start or continue an argument. It's simply my feeling and my opinion. Take what you need and leave the rest.

[Red Oak]

Does the chip on your shoulder ever knock off your halo ?

[jellowrestling]

Ann, yours is one of the types of opinions some of the guys on this board despise and deride...............when it is posited by someone with whom they disagree. It's an opinion of pure emotion. I suspect, in this case, none of those will have any problem with the emotion you express..........particularly if they have children.

I understand what you are saying and understand the emotion behind it. As I said before, those of us who do not have children are pretty much done with people telling us "you don't know what it's like". Truth is none of us knows what life is like for anyone else and cannot rightfully speak to their personal experiences or feelings or opinions that arise from them or dismiss them out of hand.

Putting aside emotion, as those same guys always want done when they refuse to accept the validity of emotion with which they don't agree - when the government quits taking my money to put other people's children through school, feed them, pay for their medical care, pay when parents refuse to do what they are supposed to do, etc. etc. I will keep my opinions to myself. Till that happens I'm as entitled to my opinion as anyone else whether or not I have children.

This is not said, as you stated, to start or continue an argument. It's simply my feeling and my opinion. Take what you need and leave the rest.

Man, you're really all over the place on that one.

[millergrovesue]

Man, you're really all over the place on that one.

Thank you.