violence and 'islam' , islam and violence

[ralph]

interesting article and timely due to the 'muslim' murderer and his murders in Americans midst just yesterday . --- http://www.ncregister.com/blog/william- ... with-islam --- some say that 'islam' is violence !!

[ralph]

and 'muslim' violence will likely increase in the USA . 100,000 muslims enter the USA yearly according to this info . --- http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... 2-million/ ---

[Castle Doctrine]

Yes, that is what some say. On the other hand, I like Sun Tzu's approach. He consistently advocated for understanding your enemy in order to defeat him. He also advocated being brutally honest with YOURSELF about your enemies. And truly, self-deception will always put you at a significant disadvantage.

The issue here is violence by ZEALOTS. The basis for their zealotry is unimportant. It isn't really going to govern their actions. They are going to act in the way they believe will best advance their agenda. Call it Islam, Christianity, Bushido, it doesn't matter...it is just an excuse to justify their actions. The important thing is to view their real objectives, real purpose, clearly and avoid being distracted by silly issues like their religion or politics.

We must not let our delusions effect our response to their delusions.

[BillB]

Yes, that is what some say. On the other hand, I like Sun Tzu's approach. He consistently advocated for understanding your enemy in order to defeat him. He also advocated being brutally honest with YOURSELF about your enemies. And truly, self-deception will always put you at a significant disadvantage.

The issue here is violence by ZEALOTS. The basis for their zealotry is unimportant. It isn't really going to govern their actions. They are going to act in the way they believe will best advance their agenda. Call it Islam, Christianity, Bushido, it doesn't matter...it is just an excuse to justify their actions. The important thing is to view their real objectives, real purpose, clearly and avoid being distracted by silly issues like their religion or politics.

We must not let our delusions effect our response to their delusions.

I disagree.
I heard a former Islamic terrorist speak on this subject.
Jihadist Islam is based on religion and that is how we need to fight it.
They are very vulnerable on religious grounds and they know it. They teach a bastardized form of Islam and they do not want that pointed out to their adherents.
The former terrorist said the best way to defeat them is not to convince them that we will kill them. They don't care. We need to convince them that their actions will send them to hell. They do care about that.

[ralph]

oh geez , now its 'sun tsu' and words of wisdom ehh ?? Seems to me that the best words of wisdom would be to keep muslims in their hellholes 'cd' . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also disagree that this violent or NORMAL 'islam' that we all see is a bastardization of some kinda peaceful islam . islam has been violent and invasive since its beginnings 1400 years ago Bill .

[Castle Doctrine]

Yes, that is what some say. On the other hand, I like Sun Tzu's approach. He consistently advocated for understanding your enemy in order to defeat him. He also advocated being brutally honest with YOURSELF about your enemies. And truly, self-deception will always put you at a significant disadvantage.

The issue here is violence by ZEALOTS. The basis for their zealotry is unimportant. It isn't really going to govern their actions. They are going to act in the way they believe will best advance their agenda. Call it Islam, Christianity, Bushido, it doesn't matter...it is just an excuse to justify their actions. The important thing is to view their real objectives, real purpose, clearly and avoid being distracted by silly issues like their religion or politics.

We must not let our delusions effect our response to their delusions.

I disagree.
I heard a former Islamic terrorist speak on this subject.
Jihadist Islam is based on religion and that is how we need to fight it.
They are very vulnerable on religious grounds and they know it. They teach a bastardized form of Islam and they do not want that pointed out to their adherents.
The former terrorist said the best way to defeat them is not to convince them that we will kill them. They don't care. We need to convince them that their actions will send them to hell. They do care about that.

Actually, you are echoing my position in a way. At least, your terrorist speaker is. Whatever the case may be we have to confront the REALITY of the enemy rather than deluding ourselves about the nature of the enemy...and these people are definitely the enemy.

I don't know that what has happened with Islam is so different than any other case of naked aggression wrapped in religion. A small group (small is relative...100K out of 1.5 billion seems small to me) infused Fascism into Bushido and we got one of the most vile, repulsive, inhuman States in history. Japan eclipsed even Germany in terms of real inhuman brutality...beheading competitions can you believe, covered in the news like sporting events. Find me something like that in Germany. Then we have Crusaders, the Spanish Empire, Manifest Destiny...all naked acquisitive aggressors wrapped in confirming and approving religion. History is resplendent in the phenomenon.

I have long argued that we are not socially or culturally prepared to understand how these people relate to religion. I'm not even sure our ancestors of two hundred years ago would understand. Your terrorist lecturer may be right. I will have to reflect on what he has said. The former enemy is often the best source for understanding the current enemy. I am just arguing for us to THINK about these things rather than automatically launching into anti-Islam rhetoric. We are sometimes our own worst enemy.

[ralph]

islam invades Spain in 711 , kicked out in the late 1400s . Spain became 'andulusia' after it was invaded by the muslim moors . 3 religions lived in Spain but Jews and Christians lived as 'dhimis' in a state of muslim imposed 'dhiminitude ' !!

[ralph]

Americas ancestors , the founding generation of Americans understood the muslim and kicked their azz'es in Americas first war . They also understood exactly who and what 'muslims' and 'islam' is . See some of early Americas history concerning muslims 'cd' .

[ralph]

Americas first war --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War --- here you go , Americans have known muslims barbarity and war since the very beginnings of America. And 'islam' was well known by the Western world long before formation of the USA 'cd' . --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War ---

[Castle Doctrine]

Americas ancestors , the founding generation of American understood the muslim and kicked their azz in Americas first war . They also understood exactly who and what 'muslims' and 'islam' is . See some of early Americas history concerning muslims 'cd' .

Ralph, I wasn't referring to the West's interactions with Islam. I was referring to the ability to understand a religion...to feel it as real. We do a lot of talk about that. But, there is almost no evidence that ANYONE takes religion as literally and personally as we pretend. If we are a Christian nation were are the Christian behaviors?

I know I have trouble getting this down clearly. It isn't that we don't have believers. It is that most of us aren't really. But, we are (or were) generally raised in church, inundated with religion in our educational and social institutions...we are indoctrinated from the beginning. But, in Islam, religion permeates EVERY aspect of their lives. To them it is very, very real.

We just do not have the mental or emotional ability to connect to that. Yes, we have our religion...in a nice little niche in our lives for Sundays and maybe Wednesday nights. These people engage in mandatory, formal prayers 5 times a day. How often have you prayed today...my count is currently zero...for the year. I simply cannot understand or connect with people like that...can you?

I have a pretty good grounding in Western Civilization. I was previously aware of everything you mentioned. It just isn't relevant to the point I was making about religion.

[ralph]

Yeah , yeah , yeah , anyway , thing is that islam and muslim religion is dangerous to the Western world. And that's MY judgement on socalled NORMAL islam . The murderer killing Marines was a NORMAL muslim following his religion . Same as the moors that invaded Spain in 711 were NORMAL muslims . Same as the Barbary states that were attacking western shipping at the start of Americas first official war after independence . Same as the airplane hijackers were NORMAL muslims when they flew jet liners into the trade towers 'cd' . islam is a problem for the Western world , read what Winston Churchill has to say about 'islam' and muslims 'cd' !! Nothing to understand , islam is the Wests enemy .

[ralph]

and a bit from Winston Churchill on islam and muslims . --- https://clockworkconservative.wordpress ... dged-1899/ --- from his book 'The River War' .

[planosteve]

How many muslims are there in the US? I don't know, but lets say 2 million. This year during a religious holliday 1 of them killed 4 innocent American? That means 1,999,999 muslims in the US didn't kill anyone. So, what this proves is that Islam is a religion of terrorism??? Yeah right.
Actually, I do not remember Muslims ever being mentioned as terrorists. Not once in my life before the US created Al-Quida to terrorize the Russians and run them out of Afghanistan. That's the first time I can ever reacall that connection.

[ralph]

hey Steve , yep let more into the USA , ok with me , grow the enemy . I still never see any muslims around my neck of the woods and I like reading about Somali jihadists in Minnesota and in Tennessee . It is interesting to watch their antics .

[Castle Doctrine]

How many muslims are there in the US? I don't know, but lets say 2 million. This year during a religious holliday 1 of them killed 4 innocent American? That means 1,999,999 muslims in the US didn't kill anyone. So, what this proves is that Islam is a religion of terrorism??? Yeah right.
Actually, I do not remember Muslims ever being mentioned as terrorists. Not once in my life before the US created Al-Quida to terrorize the Russians and run them out of Afghanistan. That's the first time I can ever reacall that connection.

Prior to that the term "terrorist" was not in common usage. The usage was generally limited to Communist groups (or groups of outlaws CLAIMING Communism). I can't even remember most of them...Shining Path, Red Brigades, a German group, an Italian groups.

This usage of Terrorist does indeed originate in the ME...but in the 80s...remember the Marine Barracks in Beirut?

[ralph]

new stories on a weekly basis and reports are that the jihadis are just warming up , according to experts on the tely !!

[ralph]

I mostly call them 'jihadis' or 'Islamic state' fighters or muslims , islamists . I like the religious flavor of my labels as its a good identifier . Terrorist just isn't a good enough identifier in my opinion .

[Castle Doctrine]

new stories on a weekly basis and reports are that the jihadis are just warming up , according to experts on the tely !!

Yeah, yeah, yeah...reports, rumors...alerts...it is very important to keep us terrified in as abstract manner as possible.

My personal experience has been that the experts on the telly are generally pandering to the editorial position of whoever pays them. I can't remember the last time one was more than incidentally correct about peripheral details.

You hear confirmation of what you already believe and you go directly to total belief. You are skipping the important step where you THINK about what you have been told.

[ralph]

I read and hear confirmation from reading a bit of history and current articles 'cd' . Plus hey , the cauldron of CURRENT muslim atrocities in their native hellholes is also quite informative 'cd' !! Plus , beheadings of soldiers on the streets of England . Massacres at 'Charlie hebdo' offices in France . muslim gang Rapes in Sweden , muslim pedophile gangs in England . isis throwing homosexuals off roofs in their areas , stonings , beheadings , burnings in cages , drowning in cages , crucifictions . Its all pretty informative 'cd' !!

[ralph]

plus links , everything I point out I can link to information about , you simply quote 'sun tzu' or state your err uninformed or crafted opinion 'cd' . Course , I'm happy to have you around as some of the things you say are interesting enough to respond to .