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millergrovesue wrote:

Zephyr wrote:I suppose it wouldn't be appropriate to mention my "Save The Clam" campaign here.

I'll join your campaign. They are safe from me. I don't like clams..........except as friends.

You forgot the oysters...they need love too.

crocmommy wrote:

millergrovesue wrote:

Zephyr wrote:I suppose it wouldn't be appropriate to mention my "Save The Clam" campaign here.

I'll join your campaign. They are safe from me. I don't like clams..........except as friends.

You forgot the oysters...they need love too.

Another bivalve that is safe from me......oh, and mussels!

As I noted previously, I was not much taken with this story until I did some research. I want to share couple of things with you folks.

The total World population of lions is something less than 32000 with some estimates as low as 20000. The primary causes of attrition are poaching and decreasing habitats. Zimbabwe has a population of approximately 200. That means killing that one lion was a reduction of one half of one percent of the country's total lion population. I consider that pretty significant. Certainly, it suggests that big game hunting IS NOT a sustainable way to fund conservation there.

As I have previously pointed out...extinction is FOREVER. And, while I am not a big environmentalist or conservationist...well, lions in the wild are magnificent beasts and I think we should make every effort to keep them around. Don't you think your God would approve of us acting to preserve his creations...the one's he granted us dominion over? I certainly know MINE would.

On the other hand, when they kill the last one it will have no real effect on our lives, my life...but, it will still be sad.

Yep. And it's going on with elephants and other animals too. Would be sad to lose them all.

and if you want to legally hunt elephants , black rhino , lion legally just wave enough money under 'mugabes' or similar 'african' tyrants nose and you can legally hunt elephant or black rhino , lion with no problem . Last guy I heard about was a hunter from Dallas that legally shot a 'black rhino' which is either rarest or very close to the rarest of all animals , supposedly . Personally , I don't care if all these predators are decimated or disappear from earth as I see no use for them by the people that have to live in close proximity to them . Millions of pictures exist , mounted specimens exist , DNA in test tube vials exist and that's good enough for me Sue !!

because I mentioned the 'black rhino' so a bit of info . --- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mself.html --- looks like a legal buy in auction . Course with all the hubbub and possibility to extract MORE money these decrepit African regimes . Well , Americans and other rich hunters better be careful . Stop the hunting and mrobama will just increase the taxpayer paid money aid to these 'african' tyrant countries .

I care about African Game, actually all animals world wide, and I want to see them thrive.

Their greatest value is legal regulated ethical hunting, followed at a distance by "Photo Safaris".

Without that the value is to poachers....

GFB wrote:
Younger generations are disproportionately pro life..so it may already be started.

Okay, GfB, you said you would refute my points if I would organize them more concisely for you. So, lets just do this one. Your statement above is demonstrably wrong. I don't know your source (you never mention sources, it seems) but I found the following article on NEWSMAX (it seems this is considered a reliable source here) that just makes clear you are wrong about the attitude of the young regarding abortion...77% approval does not equate to "disproportionately" pro-life...but it does equate to overwhelming support for a woman's right to chose.

The other facts in the article indicate that generally, your anti-abortion position has shrinking support even among people previously anti-choice. I did note that among young people the disapproval has risen from 19% to 23% but that is probably an aberration...certainly not going to shift the discussion anytime soon.

Here is the article:

http://www.newsmax.com/FastFeatures/abortion-american-views-generation/2015/04/20/id/639502/

Enjoy. What do you want to discuss next?

The article thoroughly supports my point.

It says that in the mid 70s..people in their 20s and 30s were the strongest supporters of abortion..now seniors are.

Obviously that means it's the same people..baby boomers..and they'll all be dead soon.

The generation that brought us abortion on demand is dying out.

The article also says the numbers of younger people that are against abortion are growing.

These two statistics both point to the future being much more pro life.

Those statistics are already being played out..the overall support of abortion has gone from slight majority for..to slight majority against.

yep , I knew a young girl that was about 17 - 18 that did an abortion in the early 70s . She aborted a kid when it became legal . Also knew a 30 year old woman that did an abortion in 83 . I sometimes wonder about the thoughts that have been going through their heads these last 35 years as they get older . I keep hearing that abortion is less acceptable with the newer generation .

mayhem wrote:This is the real mob that is out for blood --- the mob that wants to 'shove a fork' into the PP person on the video.

Nice. Real nice. Read this:

[b]Renegade right-winger Ted Nugent recently went on a vicious onstage rant in which he threatened the lives of Democratic presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Decked out in full-on camouflage hunting gear, Nugent wielded two machine guns while raging, "Obama, he's a piece of shit. I told him to suck on my machine gun. Hey Hillary," he continued. "You might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch." Nugent summed up his eloquent speech by screaming "freedom!"....

By the way, I don't see how any of youse can hide behind the virulent Nugent. I can't figure out why he
hasn't been scooped up by Homeland Security for making terroristic threats.

Nugent hasn't been "scooped up by Homeland Security" because he hasn't made any threats. "Suck on my machine gun" is an invitation, not a threat. Since I assume that even the W.P.E.OTUS isn't stupid enough to suck on Ted Nugent's machine gun, there isn't a problem. Nugent's rants are tame compared to the things that countless "caring" liberals said about GW Bush.

ralph wrote:yep , I knew a young girl that was about 17 - 18 that did an abortion in the early 70s . She aborted a kid when it became legal . Also knew a 30 year old woman that did an abortion in 83 . I sometimes wonder about the thoughts that have been going through their heads these last 35 years as they get older . I keep hearing that abortion is less acceptable with the newer generation .

I wonder too. I was big time pro abortion in my youth. My attitude has changed as I've aged. Again, I'm so thankful I never had to make the decision. I think I would be haunted now had I made the abortion decision.

I had a friend who had 2 abortions. She was very caviler about her decisions. I suspect she still is. She was never a very spiritual individual.

I don't waste time with abortion any more. To me it is basicly property rights. If you have no right to your own body you have no rights. Nobody has a right use govt. to force you to do or not do anything with your own body against your will. Arguements about when life begins, etc. are useless and beside the point.

planosteve wrote:I don't waste time with abortion any more. To me it is basicly property rights. If you have no right to your own body you have no rights. Nobody has a right use govt. to force you to do or not do anything with your own body against your will. Arguements about when life begins, etc. are useless and beside the point.

When ya think about most arguments are useless. Rarely does one change anyone else's mind. Civil discussions are another matter. And yes, I agree that arguments about when life begins are a waste of breath.

I think that FORCED public funding of abortion has been the biggest problem with legal abortion Steve .

millergrovesue wrote:

planosteve wrote:I don't waste time with abortion any more. To me it is basicly property rights. If you have no right to your own body you have no rights. Nobody has a right use govt. to force you to do or not do anything with your own body against your will. Arguements about when life begins, etc. are useless and beside the point.

When ya think about most arguments are useless. Rarely does one change anyone else's mind. Civil discussions are another matter. And yes, I agree that arguments about when life begins are a waste of breath.

I don't agree. I think a lot of people have changed their minds on the subject.
I can remember 50 years ago when abortion was not an issue- at least in politics. I never heard it mentioned.

BillB wrote:

millergrovesue wrote:

planosteve wrote:I don't waste time with abortion any more. To me it is basicly property rights. If you have no right to your own body you have no rights. Nobody has a right use govt. to force you to do or not do anything with your own body against your will. Arguements about when life begins, etc. are useless and beside the point.

When ya think about most arguments are useless. Rarely does one change anyone else's mind. Civil discussions are another matter. And yes, I agree that arguments about when life begins are a waste of breath.

I don't agree. I think a lot of people have changed their minds on the subject.
I can remember 50 years ago when abortion was not an issue- at least in politics. I never heard it mentioned.

I think then it was illegal and a forbidden subject in polite company. At least it's good that it can be discussed openly and honestly now that it is legal.

planosteve wrote:I don't waste time with abortion any more. To me it is basicly property rights. If you have no right to your own body you have no rights. Nobody has a right use govt. to force you to do or not do anything with your own body against your will. Arguements about when life begins, etc. are useless and beside the point.

You OK with taxpayer funding of Planned Parenthood? I'm not.

BillB wrote:I don't agree. I think a lot of people have changed their minds on the subject.
I can remember 50 years ago when abortion was not an issue- at least in politics. I never heard it mentioned.

A lot have changed their minds but not because of arguments.........at least speaking for myself and my acquaintances. Arguments only pissed me off and made me take a firmer stand.

I remember a long article in Life magazine on illegal abortion. This would have been very early 1960s. I remember sitting on a girlfriend's bed as she and I read the article and looked at the pictures. And remember Love With A Proper Stranger?

jellowrestling wrote:

planosteve wrote:I don't waste time with abortion any more. To me it is basicly property rights. If you have no right to your own body you have no rights. Nobody has a right use govt. to force you to do or not do anything with your own body against your will. Arguements about when life begins, etc. are useless and beside the point.

You OK with taxpayer funding of Planned Parenthood? I'm not.

No, but I'd like to know what the money goes for first. I might agree with some of it if other financing is not available.