Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

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GFB
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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:48 pm

planosteve wrote:
GFB wrote:I was in Dresden when it was still the East..went back about 10 years later when they were building it all back up.

All those years, everything just remained destroyed..but the good guys went right to work..building it all back.
What good guys? They moved in new people? The difference was the West German money would finally buy something.


The good guys were the free (for 40+ years) German people that had not been enslaved by Communism..East Berlin, Dresden and Leipzeg were depressing, ugly, sad places until 1989. The rest of Germany was already one of the strongest economies of the world.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:50 pm

..by the mid 90s, Capitalism had already worked it's magic in those cities.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby BillB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:40 pm

ralph wrote:I can understand concern about saving American and allied lives but I have no concern for Enemy lives that were lost . To me , the principle is Unconditional surrender or death to the enemy . The ENEMY got death in both Dresden and Japan bombings and then surrendered unconditionally . That's always the way it should always work, in my opinion !!.


Then be concerned only with American lives. I have no problem with that.
How many American lives were lost in the Ardennes (Bulge), Philippines and Okinawa, due to our Unconditional Surrender demand?

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby ralph » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:53 pm

I wouldn't ever do anything other than 'Unconditional Surrender' Bill , just the way it is for the way that I think . They started the war at Pearl Harbor , some even say that that it was the USA fault and that that the USA should have negotiated with Japan to avoid ww2 with Japan . I'm happy the way ww2 turned out and since ww2 all I see is appeasement by the USA . Last good use of force I saw by the USA was when the IRAQI army was retreating on the USA built 'Highway of Death' in about 92 .

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:55 pm

BillB wrote:
ralph wrote:I can understand concern about saving American and allied lives but I have no concern for Enemy lives that were lost . To me , the principle is Unconditional surrender or death to the enemy . The ENEMY got death in both Dresden and Japan bombings and then surrendered unconditionally . That's always the way it should always work, in my opinion !!.


Then be concerned only with American lives. I have no problem with that.
How many American lives were lost in the Ardennes (Bulge), Philippines and Okinawa, due to our Unconditional Surrender demand?


Hindsight works out great, doesn't it?

Unconditional surrender is the only way to go..and yes, having the atom bomb a year or two sooner would have been nice.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby planosteve » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:04 pm

Unconditional surrender is the only way to go..and yes, having the atom bomb a year or two sooner would have been nice.

It's just an ego thing. The war was over, the only question was when it would stop. Frying a few hundred thousand innocent civilians made no difference. The atom bomb was just a waste.
Make America Great Again. Impeach Trump! :P

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:07 pm

planosteve wrote:
Unconditional surrender is the only way to go..and yes, having the atom bomb a year or two sooner would have been nice.

It's just an ego thing. The war was over, the only question was when it would stop. Frying a few hundred thousand innocent civilians made no difference. The atom bomb was just a waste.


They weren't surrendering.

Even after Hiroshima..they still weren't.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:09 pm

This was the country that attacked us...we weren't feeling too sympathetic..no reason we should.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby planosteve » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:11 pm

GFB wrote:This was the country that attacked us...we weren't feeling too sympathetic..no reason we should.
Just the way FDR planned it.
Make America Great Again. Impeach Trump! :P

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby ralph » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:12 pm

they finally surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY after the bombing Steve . Mighta been ego or determination and a matter of principle !! Much better then than it is nowadays !! Negotiate terms with the loser , doesn't make sense to me !!

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby BillB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:36 pm

GFB wrote:
planosteve wrote:
Unconditional surrender is the only way to go..and yes, having the atom bomb a year or two sooner would have been nice.

It's just an ego thing. The war was over, the only question was when it would stop. Frying a few hundred thousand innocent civilians made no difference. The atom bomb was just a waste.


They weren't surrendering.

Even after Hiroshima..they still weren't.


They weren't surrendering because we would not guarantee them the preservation of the Emperor.
That's exactly what I have been saying.
They would have surrendered in April, or earlier, had we accepted the condition of letting them keep the Emperor and his throne.
We wound up doing it anyway.
Last edited by BillB on Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby BillB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:39 pm

ralph wrote:they finally surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY after the bombing Steve . Mighta been ego or determination and a matter of principle !! Much better then than it is nowadays !! Negotiate terms with the loser , doesn't make sense to me !!


Were we any better off that they surrendered unconditionally? No, we were worse off.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:34 pm

BillB wrote:
ralph wrote:they finally surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY after the bombing Steve . Mighta been ego or determination and a matter of principle !! Much better then than it is nowadays !! Negotiate terms with the loser , doesn't make sense to me !!


Were we any better off that they surrendered unconditionally? No, we were worse off.


Of course we were better off. The whole world was. We wrote them a new Constitution and they joined the civilized world and became an ally.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:36 pm

..and like Germany, became a great economic power, instead of just a bunch of barbaric, murderous lunatics.

Nothing like total victory to fix all the problems.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:39 pm

Nothing like total defeat for a come to Jesus moment.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:04 pm

..and best off..the world got to see the awesome power we now wielded.

..and that from this moment on..all you scummy countries exist because we've decided to allow you to..don't push your luck.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby BillB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:14 pm

GFB wrote:
BillB wrote:
ralph wrote:they finally surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY after the bombing Steve . Mighta been ego or determination and a matter of principle !! Much better then than it is nowadays !! Negotiate terms with the loser , doesn't make sense to me !!


Were we any better off that they surrendered unconditionally? No, we were worse off.


Of course we were better off. The whole world was. We wrote them a new Constitution and they joined the civilized world and became an ally.


Exactly the same thing would have happened had they surrendered in April rather than August.
The Bomb changed nothing except the additional loss of life- including American lives.
If we had wanted to demonstrate our 'awesome power", it would have benefited us more to have used it on Stalin.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby BillB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:45 pm

Here's some quotes by people who did not have the benefit of these forums to teach them about WW II -

– "In 1945 Secretary of War [Henry] Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act...on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary...I thought [atomic bombs] were no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives." – Dwight Eisenhower (General of the Army)

– "The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan." – Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz (Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet)

"There was no military justification for the dropping of the bomb[s]. The war might have ended weeks earlier, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the [Japanese] emperor." – Douglas MacArthur (General of the Army)

– "The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons... I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children." – Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy (Chief of Staff to President Truman)
Last edited by BillB on Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:47 pm

BillB wrote:
GFB wrote:
BillB wrote:Exactly the same thing would have happened had they surrendered in April rather than August.
The Bomb changed nothing except the additional loss of life- including American lives.
If we had wanted to demonstrate our 'awesome power", it would have benefited us more to have used it on Stalin.


I think your comments regarding Japan are absurd..and I think I can prove it.

My father was in the 5th army infantry..and after Germany fell he spent 7 more months away from home training for tank detail in Europe..specifically for the invasion of Japan. I'm sure tens of thousands of other dads are alive today because the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki..give it up..your views are not credible on this issue.

The atom bombs on Japan were one of the most constructive, historically significant, important decisions America ever made...truly a really to celebrate freedom. And there is no way to know what we would had had to do to get them to surrender without the bombs..but Japan would have never left the Phillipines and the other islands..they all had to be liberated.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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Re: Reverand Graham , storm of ISLAM is coming

Postby GFB » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:51 pm

BillB wrote:Here's some quotes by people who did not have the benefit of these forums to teach them about WW II -

– "In 1945 Secretary of War [Henry] Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act...on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary...I thought [atomic bombs] were no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives." – Dwight Eisenhower (General of the Army)

– "The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan." – Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz (Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet)

– "There was no military justification for the dropping of the bomb[s]. The war might have ended weeks earlier, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the [Japanese] emperor." – Douglas MacArthur (General of the Army)



A bunch of people that were really looking forward to liberating Japan themselves.

No medals for dropping atomic bombs.

Screw them..big bombs are better.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.


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