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Some 75% of the once mighty German Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe were destroyed by the Soviet Union on the Eastern Front: 607 German and Axis divisions, 48,000 German tanks, 77,000 German warplanes.

The shattered German forces met by the Americans, British and Canadians at Normandy were reduced to 40% of effective strength. They were immobilized by lack of fuel and had no air cover to protect them from 24-hour Allied carpet bombing and strafing. It was amazing the battered Germans could fight at all, or so hard. Had the Allied landing met the Germans of 1940, they would have been pushed into the Channel.

So big thanks are still owed to the Russians/Soviets who, however brutal and murderous, really won the war in Europe and went on to destroy 450,000 Japanese troops. At least 12 million Soviet soldiers died so sparing the lives of Allied soldiers.

Intelligent grownups talk to their rivals and enemies. For example, if the US and Britain had agreed to talk peace terms with the German generals in 1944, or at least backed their coup again Hitler, the war might well have ended a year earlier.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/06/eric ... bout-wwii/

The Soviet Union also played a big part in starting WWII.
The Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939 allowed Hitler to attack Poland a week later, setting off the War.
The Soviets participated in the attack.

BillB wrote:The Soviet Union also played a big part in starting WWII.
The Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939 allowed Hitler to attack Poland a week later, setting off the War.
The Soviets participated in the attack.

Good point. Nobody was all right, or all wrong. Some historians believe that had the US not entered WWI, Germany and England would have eventually have negotiated an end to the war like they always did. But, we crushed Germany which allowed peace terms to be dictated by the allies. It was intolerably harsh, which is how someone like Hitler managed to rise to power in opposition.

Germany should have honored the Sussex Pledge during WWI.

Germany should have left Russia alone during WWII.

Anyone else notice a pattern of stupid moves by Germany ?

John in Plano wrote:Germany should have honored the Sussex Pledge during WWI.

Germany should have left Russia alone during WWII.

Anyone else notice a pattern of stupid moves by Germany ?

There are a number of them.
1. Not removing England from the War.
2. Declaring war on the United States.
3. Not seizing Moscow.

Leaving Russia alone was out of the question. Destroying and occupying the Soviet Union was Hitler's sole reason for the War. Hitler had no designs on England or the rest of Europe and did not want to fight England. He had envisioned England as an ally in his war against Bolshevism.

Hitler declared war on the United States because he had signed a mutual aid pact with Japan. If Japan had not attacked the US, we would have stayed (overtly) out of the war. Then Germany could devote its full attention to the USSR.

Germany would still have lost because they used about 10% of their GNP to exterminating Jews. That 10% would have best been used to fight the USSR.

Germany would still have lost because Hitler was an idiot. His military skills was as great as Saddam Hussein.

Sloanmiester wrote:Hitler declared war on the United States because he had signed a mutual aid pact with Japan. If Japan had not attacked the US, we would have stayed (overtly) out of the war. Then Germany could devote its full attention to the USSR.

Germany would still have lost because they used about 10% of their GNP to exterminating Jews. That 10% would have best been used to fight the USSR.

Germany would still have lost because Hitler was an idiot. His military skills was as great as Saddam Hussein.

Hitler's pact with Japan did not require him to wage war on the United States. That would have been required only if the US had initiated hostilities against Japan.

My father was believer that the Germans were much better soldiers than his side.

He wouldn't tell my brother and I much, but he told us that.

When asked why we won the war, my father always gave the same answer.."more of us."

BillB thanks for posting the additional stupid moves by Germany

Battle of Britain and the lack of a true heavy bomber are additional ones IMO

BillB wrote:

John in Plano wrote:Germany should have honored the Sussex Pledge during WWI.

Anyone else notice a pattern of stupid moves by Germany ?

Glad the generals were too afraid to wake Adolph from his daily nap to let hin know the invasion had started and from where it was coming...

planosteve wrote:

BillB wrote:The Soviet Union also played a big part in starting WWII.
The Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939 allowed Hitler to attack Poland a week later, setting off the War.
The Soviets participated in the attack.

Good point. Nobody was all right, or all wrong. Some historians believe that had the US not entered WWI, Germany and England would have eventually have negotiated an end to the war like they always did. But, we crushed Germany which allowed peace terms to be dictated by the allies. It was intolerably harsh, which is how someone like Hitler managed to rise to power in opposition.

Nonsense. Germany started WWI because they felt left out of the colonial expansion of the other European countries like England, Holland, France, Spain and Portugal, and they took advantage of an assassination to find a Casus Belli. Things didn't go the way they hoped, and they got a bad deal out of the peace treaty.

Germany and Russia then conspired to carve up Europe as their personal playgrounds. They were evil empires who took advantage of the fact that none of the other countries wanted war (after the devastation of WWI), and were willing to avoid it any cost. Hitler understood that and took advantage of it.