If you are a progressive,you are crazy,maybe evil

[Sangersteve]

The list of things 15-year-olds are not legally allowed to do in Oregon is long: Drive, smoke, donate blood, get a tattoo — even go to a tanning bed.







But, under a first-in-the-nation policy quietly enacted in January that many parents are only now finding out about, 15-year-olds are now allowed to get a sex-change operation. Many residents are stunned to learn they can do it without parental notification — and the state will even pay for it through its Medicaid program, the Oregon Health Plan.

[ralph]

I vote EVIL , course lefties don't recognize EVIL , they think that it is superstition based on Christianity and Christian thinking of Good versus Evil .

[Red Oak]

And Useful Idiots - the Progs have crap loads of them.

[ralph]

there was talk yesterday , Lars Larson , think that he broadcasts PNW and mostly out of studios in 'portland' orygun . He was saying that as well as this issue of 15 year olds is the issue of another EVIL making the rounds among oregons expurts and intelligentsia . That issue is the old issue of Sarah Palins --- Death Panels .

[Castle Doctrine]

I did some reading on this today. I don't think the RW media is representing this correctly. I think everyone would do well to consider the remarks of the Oregon Health Authority which said:

“In Oregon, the age of medical consent is 15 or older. Patients should be able to demonstrate the capacity to make a fully informed decision and to give consent to treatment, regardless of age. However, nothing in Oregon law requires a health care provider to provide medical services to a minor or safeguard the confidentiality of a minor. In most cases, providers will encourage (and in some cases require) family engagement and supports unless it would endanger the patient.”

There are also a long list of guidelines that must be met before anyone gets insurance coverage for cross-sex hormone therapy or sex reassignment surgery.

According to the same story, the medical age of consent has been 15 in Oregon since 1971. This is just equal application of the law. Death panels are still just a Palin fable. This is just another story to alarm those that don't bother with the DETAILS or multiple points of view. While discussing how Libs are being manipulated you are being manipulated to believe that is true...whole lot of manipulating going on...and not much real critical thinking.

Could someone explain to me in REAL WORLD terms why the Right is so obsessed with other people's sexuality? Why are they so committed to stuffing everyone into their one-size fits all view of what sexuality really is? And why is there no compassion for the kid...if this is want the kid wants life must be very bad...and 15 is a long time to deal with this issue. Oregon appears to understand that not all parents are good parents...particularly right wing evangelicals where sex is concerned.

This is a misleading story couched in terms designed to raise as much outrage as possible. It took less than three minutes to find a balanced, comprehensive discussion of bother sides. Why would I be the only one to say..."That sounds odd. I wonder what the real story is. Someone wants me outraged...why?"

[millergrovesue]

"Could someone explain to me in REAL WORLD terms why the Right is so obsessed with other people's sexuality? Why are they so committed to stuffing everyone into their one-size fits all view of what sexuality really is? And why is there no compassion for the kid...if this is want the kid wants life must be very bad...and 15 is a long time to deal with this issue. Oregon appears to understand that not all parents are good parents...particularly right wing evangelicals where sex is concerned.

This is a misleading story couched in terms designed to raise as much outrage as possible. It took less than three minutes to find a balanced, comprehensive discussion of bother sides. Why would I be the only one to say...'That sounds odd. I wonder what the real story is. Someone wants me outraged...why'?"
_____________________________________________________________________________

Castle, you are making the mistake of using reason, logic, and truth. The wrought up, who need to be spending more time looking in the mirror, don't want those things. They want anger, hate, outrage, and inflammation. I have been forever mystified as to why some are so busy sticking their noses into other people's sexuality but have figured it's so they don't have to examine their own lives. It's that moat in the eye thing, don't ya know.

[GFB]

"Could someone explain to me in REAL WORLD terms why the Right is so obsessed with other people's sexuality? Why are they so committed to stuffing everyone into their one-size fits all view of what sexuality really is? And why is there no compassion for the kid...if this is want the kid wants life must be very bad...

Other people's sexuality?

This is a child..do you have kids?

Do you or did you see your job as a parent was to make sure they have everything they want?..even slicing up the body God gave them?

Do you think a 15 year old can rationally make such a decision..or should?

At 15, you're not supposed to even be sexually active..correct?

[Castle Doctrine]

"Could someone explain to me in REAL WORLD terms why the Right is so obsessed with other people's sexuality? Why are they so committed to stuffing everyone into their one-size fits all view of what sexuality really is? And why is there no compassion for the kid...if this is want the kid wants life must be very bad...

Other people's sexuality?

This is a child..do you have kids?

Do you or did you see your job as a parent was to make sure they have everything they want?..even slicing up the body God gave them?

Do you think a 15 year old can rationally make such a decision..or should?

At 15, you're not supposed to even be sexually active..correct?

Hey, those are good questions and I do have comments about them...or will. I have to be in Denver in 2 hours though so it will be this afternoon late when I get back. We will continue this then if you like. I like your approach even though I don't think we share the same parental philosophy. Certainly, you raise interesting points.

[ralph]

some people are childless so no grandchildren or concerns for the future or their kids or Grandkids future . Its my opinion , and I'm not slurring or trying or 'INTENDING' to start a fight but some childless people don't see or care about the FUTURE that these lefty and abnormal moves and policies are creating for THEIR progeny , because they have NO progeny !! Like I said , no slur as I sure don't know who has kids and who doesn't have kids Greg and the board !! I have 3 kids and a couple Grandkids so I have a stake in the future of America and I don't like seeing what I am seeing happening in America .

[GFB]

some people are childless so no grandchildren or concerns for the future or their kids or Grandkids future . Its my opinion , and I'm not slurring or trying or 'INTENDING' to start a fight but some childless people don't see the FUTURE that these lefty and abnormal moves and policies are creating for THEIR progeny , because they have NO progeny !! Like I said , no slur as I sure don't know who has kids and who doesn't have kids Greg and the board !! I have 3 kids and a couple Grandkids so I have a stake in the future of America and I don't like seeing what I am seeing happening in America .

You don't need kids to be sane, or to care about the future.

I have none.

[ralph]

AND , I did say SOME . Course I also think that my words on people without children is CORRECT concerning SOME people !!

[Red Oak]

Genitals mutilation is all the rage these days I guess.

[Sangersteve]

The story is still true.

It is being explained away as in Oregon a 15 year old is allowed to make medical decisions without parental consent.

Does anyone,except a progressive, believe that a 15 year old is mature enough to think something through, and make a logical choice? Not an emotional choice.

[millergrovesue]

some people are childless so no grandchildren or concerns for the future or their kids or Grandkids future . Its my opinion , and I'm not slurring or trying or 'INTENDING' to start a fight but some childless people don't see or care about the FUTURE that these lefty and abnormal moves and policies are creating for THEIR progeny , because they have NO progeny !! Like I said , no slur as I sure don't know who has kids and who doesn't have kids Greg and the board !! I have 3 kids and a couple Grandkids so I have a stake in the future of America and I don't like seeing what I am seeing happening in America .

Not taking it as a slur but taking it as something people with kids say in an attempt to give their opinion more weight than the opinion of people without kids. To my thinking this is the same argument as saying you are not entitled to have an opinion about abortion because you aren't a woman. Bet you don't buy that one, Ralph. Just because I CHOSE not to have kids does not mean I don't care about the future or the young inhabitants of this Earth and it certainly does not mean I am not entitled to an opinion. I have nieces, nephews, grandnieces, grandnephews, cousins by the scores and their progeny for goodness sakes. And don't tell me it's not the same as having my own children. I've heard that argument till I want to barf. It's lame and it's pointless.

[ralph]

all my medical decisions were made by parent until I was 18 , actually older as I still wanted their advice but legal is 18 I think . I think that the state / government may just be creating another class of people that needs to be pandered too , protected . Creating another protected class thought just occurred to me !!

[millergrovesue]

all my medical decisions were made by parent until I was 18 , actually older as I still wanted their advice but legal is 18 I think . I think that the state / government may just be creating another class of people that needs to be pandered too , protected . Creating another protected class thought just occurred to me !!

You allowed yourself to be very protected. I don't think I allowed my parents to make a medical decision for me past the age of 15. By 19 I was on birth control and my parents had no knowledge of it.

[ralph]

well , continue barfin , my opinion is still my opinion Sue !! And I think that my opinion is shared by many , many people . 15 year old deciding to go 'jenner' using their supposedly undeveloped thinking ability . I mean , he11 , they need to stay on their parents insurance till 26 but can make medical decisions concerning sexual gender identity at 15 doesn't make any sense . There is even a lefty argument going around that Maturity comes much later than the Traditional legal age of 18 or 21 . Course , as with most things that the left advocates , well , I call the theory as BS .

[ralph]

only had a big one at 15 , broke my back , parents were in charge . They said , NO SURGERY , laid in a curved bed in the hospital for 3 months then was wrapped in a plaster cast from hips to above the shoulders for a year of sleeping on a carpeted floor in the living room . Cured after that although everyone wanted me to wear a brace that I didn't wear . I was very healthy , good genes as well as excellent thinking ability . But yeah , Hey , DAD was paying , I was a kid , parents were in charge at least legally to 18 I think . That was the law in 64 as best I remember . ----------------------------- Think that parents are still responsible to 18 as I was LEGALLY responsible for my kids health and well being , medical till they were 18 .

[jellowrestling]

Legal age to have a beer is 21, but it's OK to get a choppadicoffamy or addidictomy at 15 without parental consent?

INSANE.

Those people who say, "I knew I was in the 'wrong body' my whole life (or "I knew I was different" or whatever)"? Well, I didn't develop any real interest in girls (beyond mild curiosity) until I was at least 12, and really, it was more like 15, and by that time the hormones had really kicked in. Socially, I knew I was supposed to, but I mostly saw girls as something that got in the way of sports. In fact, I remember the exact moment that things changed. It was in the Spring of 9th-grade, and a group of us (basketball players) were playing 5-on-5 half-court when a ridiculously pretty girl walked into the gym. We all looked over and saw her, and then suddenly and wordlessly, the intensity picked up about 100%. Maybe 200%. She was probably only in there about 5 minutes, but as soon as she left, we were all dripping in sweat, and we all immediately agreed it was time to take a break. I was 15, and things were never quite the same.

So, no, I don't think 15-year-olds, whose brains are not fully formed yet, should be allowed to mutilate their bodies without their parents' consent.

[jellowrestling]

"Could someone explain to me in REAL WORLD terms why the Right is so obsessed with other people's sexuality? Why are they so committed to stuffing everyone into their one-size fits all view of what sexuality really is? And why is there no compassion for the kid...if this is want the kid wants life must be very bad...

Other people's sexuality?

This is a child..do you have kids?

Do you or did you see your job as a parent was to make sure they have everything they want?..even slicing up the body God gave them?

Do you think a 15 year old can rationally make such a decision..or should?

At 15, you're not supposed to even be sexually active..correct?

Hey, those are good questions and I do have comments about them...or will. I have to be in Denver in 2 hours though so it will be this afternoon late when I get back. We will continue this then if you like. I like your approach even though I don't think we share the same parental philosophy. Certainly, you raise interesting points.

Can't wait to see the response. I'm feeling cheated.