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Of course, the only real difference is that the Christian believes in ONE more God than the Atheist.

Just something to think about. Hope no one gets a headache.

Castle Doctrine wrote:Of course, the only real difference is that the Christian believes in ONE more God than the Atheist.

Just something to think about. Hope no one gets a headache.

After a dozen or so naproxen sodiums ...

Christians believe there is a god and the point is to live by that faith (John 5:24.-26) and you'll get your reward
Evangelical Christians (lots of them) proclaim that there's objective reality and you'd better get yer a$$ in gear with this or you'll be really sorry for a very long time. (Forever, i.e.)
Agnostics don't know, don't care and wonder what the big deal is. Maybe there's a god and maybe there's not. It's nothing to me.
Atheists actively proclaim as reasonable and objective reality that there is no god. I have no fear that there's a bogeyman or a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Christians (Jews, Muslims and others) have faith and care
Evangelical Christians 'know' and don't care (you either get saved or you don't and too bad about you)
Agnostics have no particular religious faith but they care deeply
Atheists 'know' and don't care (as long as you don't try to condemn or 'save' me) and get knickers all twisted if you hurl religion at them

All this is the rumination of one who has studied religion for more than forty years and 'it' (the paragraphs above) suffers because of terseness.

Translation is available for Sangersteve, but I might send it in Aramaic (the language Jesus, that Moses knew and Muhhamad likely understood.)

TDoW

Well, I'd differ in that I'd say Christians believe that we are saved by our faith in Jesus alone. No action is necessary beyond that. Doing good works is a reflection of God's love and a reflection of our salvation. Baptists..........at least those of us who are not Southern Baptists......... have the wonderful priesthood of the believer doctrine that puts the rest of our belief system in our hands through the grace of God, prayer, and study. I don't know if any other denominations share priesthood of the believer.

Far as evangelicals go - I think they have different definitions for themselves but part of it would be the first part of the above.

In my opinion fundamentalists believe they are right. Anyone who doesn't believe what they believe is wrong and/or evil. Pretty simple way to think and awfully judgmental.

Well, far be it from me to disagree with someone who has studied religion for forty years . . .

BigTex wrote:Well, far be it from me to disagree with someone who has studied religion for forty years . . .

Studied religion for 40 years, and doesn't know Jews do not consider, or refer to their religion as..a "faith."

This is a classic "troll" thread.

GFB wrote:Studied religion for 40 years, and doesn't know Jews do not consider, or refer to their religion as..a "faith."

I read mayhem's post 3 times. He didn't say Jews consider their religion a faith. He said they "have faith". Big difference. I'm not sure what "care" refers to.

jellowrestling wrote:This is a classic "troll" thread.

Some of us find the topic interesting.

jellowrestling wrote:This is a classic "troll" thread.

Thank Gawd for ignore mode, it is kryptonite to Trolls and Useful Idiots

Red Oak wrote:

jellowrestling wrote:This is a classic "troll" thread.

Thank Gawd for ignore mode, it is kryptonite to Trolls and Useful Idiots

+1

GFB wrote:

BigTex wrote:Well, far be it from me to disagree with someone who has studied religion for forty years . . .

Studied religion for 40 years, and doesn't know Jews do not consider, or refer to their religion as..a "faith."

Jeez, it's just a generalization. IF I'd tried to make the argument water proof (so to speak) I would have had to use about five hundred screens.

Not saying that studying religion for any length of time makes one right... but it does make one informed. Of course Jews believe that Judaism is a way of life, but that, essentially, doesn't make calling it a faith wrong.

What do you say about the 'three Abrahamic Faiths? (See what I mean?) And I DID say my post suffered from terseness. What do you think terseness means?

Is that better?

millergrovesue wrote:Well, I'd differ in that I'd say Christians believe that we are saved by our faith in Jesus alone. No action is necessary beyond that. Doing good works is a reflection of God's love and a reflection of our salvation. Baptists..........at least those of us who are not Southern Baptists......... have the wonderful priesthood of the believer doctrine that puts the rest of our belief system in our hands through the grace of God, prayer, and study. I don't know if any other denominations share priesthood of the believer.

Far as evangelicals go - I think they have different definitions for themselves but part of it would be the first part of the above.

In my opinion fundamentalists believe they are right. Anyone who doesn't believe what they believe is wrong and/or evil. Pretty simple way to think and awfully judgmental.

Don't have a problem with that, Sue. The SBC has kicked out the priesthood of all believers. Since they redid the Baptist Faith and Message some few years ago, one might have to compare one's view with the preacher's for for approval. The Calvinists invented the priesthood of the believers. It is a beautiful part of the faith.

The other generalizations about the different strands of religious belief were not completely satisfactory.

My post was to make a case that there are no real atheists. Just various flavors of agnosticism.

Red Oak wrote:

jellowrestling wrote:This is a classic "troll" thread.

Thank Gawd for ignore mode, it is kryptonite to Trolls and Useful Idiots

Trying to get my goat, right? Who's trolling?

My comments in the post were not extreme. They
are simply basic. You don't like it show me where
I'm wrong. If I'd done it the best way, you'd be
screaming about long messages.

Red Oak wrote:

jellowrestling wrote:This is a classic "troll" thread.

Thank Gawd for ignore mode, it is kryptonite to Trolls and Useful Idiots

I'm thankful for it too. Don't have to read Red Oak has made a fool of himself calling names yet again. What a relief. I'm thoroughly enjoying it!

mayhem wrote:Don't have a problem with that, Sue. The SBC has kicked out the priesthood of all believers. Since they redid the Baptist Faith and Message some few years ago, one might have to compare one's view with the preacher's for for approval. The Calvinists invented the priesthood of the believers. It is a beautiful part of the faith.

The other generalizations about the different strands of religious belief were not completely satisfactory.

My post was to make a case that there are no real atheists. Just various flavors of agnosticism.

It's one of the many many reasons why I think the SBC has become (as my husband would say) testosterone poisoned and highly right wing politicized. The focus of the SBC seems to be to use out of context Bible verses to elevate men and keep women "in their place" rather than exist as a religious organization that unifies. My home church left SBC many years ago. I look askance at any church that still belongs to the SBC and doubt I could ever belong to one. I told a visiting preacher (trying to get me to come to his SBC church years ago) that the SBC is to Baptists as Jim Jones was to Kool Aid.

Your generalizations made sense as brief statements.

I can't speak to the existence of real atheists. God knows what is in people's hearts. I'm thinking He knows whether someone is a true atheist or just trying to call attention to themselves and raise arguments.

millergrovesue wrote:Well, I'd differ in that I'd say Christians believe that we are saved by our faith in Jesus alone. No action is necessary beyond that. Doing good works is a reflection of God's love and a reflection of our salvation. Baptists..........at least those of us who are not Southern Baptists......... have the wonderful priesthood of the believer doctrine that puts the rest of our belief system in our hands through the grace of God, prayer, and study. I don't know if any other denominations share priesthood of the believer.

Far as evangelicals go - I think they have different definitions for themselves but part of it would be the first part of the above.

In my opinion fundamentalists believe they are right. Anyone who doesn't believe what they believe is wrong and/or evil. Pretty simple way to think and awfully judgmental.

Excuse me. I didn't read your note carefully enough. For some weird reason I thought you were saying you were SBC. Sorry for my mistreak. The Priesthood of the Believer is both affirming, it's challenging.

At the end of life, no one will be asked what John Calvin believed (well, of course John Calvin will), we will all be asked what WE believed. Stir that up with Grace and, well, that's really something ineffable.

I'm a very, very deep critic of 'religion.' But, when it's not defeated by our selfish beliefs, is majestic.

I am sorry if anyone was offended by my comments re: evangelicals. Wasn't trying to be mean -- expressing frustration with some of the extremes us humans tend to go for.

" Of course Jews believe that Judaism is a way of life, but that, essentially, doesn't make calling it a faith wrong."

Yes it does.

Completely

GFB wrote:" Of course Jews believe that Judaism is a way of life, but that, essentially, doesn't make calling it a faith wrong."

Yes it does.

Completely

I'd say some Jews consider Judaism a way of life. Don't think the non observant Jews would qualify. They are Jews by birth only.

Based on the following definition I'd say Judaism qualifies as a faith as well.
1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination, (religious) persuasion, (religious) belief, ideology, creed, teaching, doctrine

mayhem wrote:Excuse me. I didn't read your note carefully enough. For some weird reason I thought you were saying you were SBC. Sorry for my mistreak. The Priesthood of the Believer is both affirming, it's challenging.

At the end of life, no one will be asked what John Calvin believed (well, of course John Calvin will), we will all be asked what WE believed. Stir that up with Grace and, well, that's really something ineffable.

I'm a very, very deep critic of 'religion.' But, when it's not defeated by our selfish beliefs, is majestic.

I am sorry if anyone was offended by my comments re: evangelicals. Wasn't trying to be mean -- expressing frustration with some of the extremes us humans tend to go for.

Nope, I am decidedly not Southern Baptist. And you are right about priesthood of the believer. It's both..........which is what is so great about it!

I'm more frustrated by fundamentalists (who I believe consider themselves evangelists) than any other religious group. There is no conversation with a true fundamentalist - at least that's the case with the ones I know......and I know a bunch - because of the closed mind.