Gun control

[ralph]

That's Arizona , Alaska , Vermont and 1 or 2 other states and its called Constitutional Carry . Yep , I agree , that's how it should be Greg .

[mayhem]

I'm not saying 'no guns. That will never happen and it shouldn't.

Would anyone, though, like to take on this question (I asked it earlier and no one chose to respond to it.):

"Are there any first world nations with a problem as great as ours?" I haven't heard that there are.

All I'm saying is that what we're doing now doesn't seem to me to be working.

Why not?

I don't like 'answers' that appear to be "Nothing constructive can be done." That's just
a form of hopelessness.

'Answers' that are simplistic don't help much either.

I think anyone would be tempted to respond positively to the proposition that NYC cops are among the best trained in the world. That would esp include handling sidearms.

But the following shows a result of highly trained officers attempting to subdue a killer on the sidewalk.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/ny ... e-gunfire/

If those who have great training, in a very difficult spot on the sidewalk at the Empire State Building with many bystanders, hit many of them; would we expect everyday people to do any better? Arming everyone seems to me to be completely unworkable.

It seems intractable.

I'm getting out of this give and take. I'm in over my head (and I'm not alone) and don't have anything much to add to this conversation. But please understand me: my position has nothing to do with limiting 'guns' for anyone who wants one (I think I'd stand by that remark) as long as they are nit criminals, crazy or unstable.

There simply are some people who should not have easy access to formidable weapons.

[GFB]

There is no way to keep guns away from the bad people without keeping them away from everyone.

No thanks..I'll take what we have.

..and a public place like a church should be full of armed people.

[Mark]

"Are there any first world nations with a problem as great as ours?" I haven't heard that there are.

Yes, adjusted for population, there are several "first world" countries that have a greater problem than we do, and they all have very restrictive gun laws.

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/06/348197- ... him-wrong/

[ralph]

yeah , well , I'm not interested in any gun control and certainly not interested in 'MORE' gun control' . There are car deaths , 5 gallon bucket deaths [babies] , swimming pool deaths , drug deaths , doctor caused deaths and all kinds of deaths in a FREE society that is full of about 310 million people of all types of people . I will not support more gun restrictions and will work with pro gun groups like GOA , NRA , and JPFO to roll back restrictions and gun laws Mayhem . Good to see you here , might be some interesting conversation ehh Mayhem .

[ralph]

and by the way , I feel no silly 'Emotion' like Hopelessness or despair as everything is pretty cool in America for the most part . Also don't care what problems foreign countries have or don't have Mayhem !!

[millergrovesue]

and by the way , I feel no silly 'Emotion' like Hopelessness or despair as everything is pretty cool in America for the most part . !

Agreed. It ain't perfect but it's better than any place else and I thank God every day I was born here.

[mayhem]

and by the way , I feel no silly 'Emotion' like Hopelessness or despair as everything is pretty cool in America for the most part . Also don't care what problems foreign countries have or don't have Mayhem !!

I should probably 'stick to my guns' and leave this conversation alone, but sounds to me like you all are determined to misunderestimate me. So to speak.

I come from a scientific background and two words make us very uncomfortable= 1. Always and 2. Never. (Excepting physical laws and even those are 'broken' under special circumstances. For example, the Special Theory of Relativity. Kinda restates itself thru its accepted nomenclature, doesn't it?' Truth is, scientifically, everything is relative. Even higher mathematics may one day prove to have been wrong. Probably not, but it is possible. (see David Deutsch, The Fabric of Reality)

Hopeless is not a silly emotional word. It is descriptive and it means 'incorrigible' or 'intractable.' But I am asking some pertinent questions that deserve answers that
are a little better and more relevant than the merely silly.

Never said we (US) aren't perfect and it may well be that gun ownership cannot successfully be limited without hurting the good guys in the end. I don't know. Don't want to hurt the good guys in the end. That's a pun.

Thought it was worth raising. Didn't think everybody would run for his/her high horse. Let's go back to leaning on the neighborhood's good fence, OK?

[mayhem]

and by the way , I feel no silly 'Emotion' like Hopelessness or despair as everything is pretty cool in America for the most part . !

Agreed. It ain't perfect but it's better than any place else and I thank God every day I was born here.

Millergrovesue, how many times have you been born here? JK, JK.

I been meaning to thank you for the kind 'howdy.'

[ralph]

naw , no fence leaning or high horse for me . I just want no more gun laws or restrictions on my RIGHTS . My guns have never hurt anyone and I've had them for many years . Anyway , here is an article , just interesting and from a good source . --- http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/ ... -rights/3/ --- not really related to anything in this thread except for infringement on people Rights also known as 'gun control' in San Francisco California .

[ralph]

AND , also shows that the courts are also messed up as regards the San Fran' deal described in the article .

[Mark]

The Second Amendment says that all gun laws are unconstitutional.

[ralph]

I'll go with that Mark !!

[Mark]

This is what happens when the good guys are armed.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/1-Kill ... 75121.html

[planosteve]

The Second Amendment says that all gun laws are unconstitutional.

The thing is that's just your opinion and you aren't on the Supreme Court, so it doesn't matter.

[Mark]

The Second Amendment says that all gun laws are unconstitutional.

The thing is that's just your opinion and you aren't on the Supreme Court, so it doesn't matter.

I'll agree that I don't have the legal training that enables me to twist words into saying things they don't. However, I do have the ability to read and understand the words in the Constitution, regardless of what the political hacks on the Supreme Court say.

[planosteve]

The Second Amendment says that all gun laws are unconstitutional.

The thing is that's just your opinion and you aren't on the Supreme Court, so it doesn't matter.

I'll agree that I don't have the legal training that enables me to twist words into saying things they don't. However, I do have the ability to read and understand the words in the Constitution, regardless of what the political hacks on the Supreme Court say.[/quote

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I think the definition of "arms" has changed considerably since the Constitution. Then it meant a single shot mussel loaded musket.

[ralph]

yeah , and we should all be communicating by mails , traveling by foot or horse drawn carriage !! And by the way , at the time of the Constitution there were repeating firearms . Anyway , a corrupt or stacked court MAY also be a problem .

[planosteve]

yeah , and we should all be communicating by mails , traveling by foot or horse drawn carriage !! And by the way , at the time of the Constitution there were repeating firearms . Anyway , a corrupt or stacked court MAY also be a problem .

I think the Founder's considered corrupt courts. That's why they are appointed for life.

[ralph]

my point was that ARMS was / is Arms no matter if a musket or an AR15 . I mean , they coulda said Brown Bess musket !!