For Sale: Baby parts

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mayhem
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby mayhem » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:07 pm

Red Oak wrote:Don't ever address me again.


Can anyone tell me why he was born Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, adopted the revolutionary name Nicolai Lenin, and now is almost always referred to as Vladimir Lenin? What the F?

By the way, I don't know where the Lenin and Useful Idiot combination came from. I don't think I did it.


Did I lie, distort, manipulate, obfuscate, ramble or otherwise muck up the above message?

PS Water Head could be confused with hydrocephalus which is not very nice. I think I'd prefer being called a Tall Drink of Water or even Water Log. Or maybe Water Rock Nob (in a national park).

Water Rock or Water Nob or am I think one who should never address you again? I can't be sure.

Obfuscational? Rambalational? Any of that other stuff?
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mayhem
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby mayhem » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:20 pm

jellowrestling wrote:
Red Oak wrote:Ann, waterhead trolls for sport.

Yeah, I'm coming around. Either all YL's have similar rambling patterns, or this is Waterhead.


I did find this surpassingly easy to find.


Water Rock at yer service!


In political jargon, useful idiot is a term for people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they are not fully aware of, and who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause. Despite often being misattributed to Vladimir Lenin,[1][2][3] in 1987, Grant Harris, senior reference librarian at the Library of Congress, declared that "We have not been able to identify this phrase among [Lenin's] published works."[4][5]

In the Russian language, the equivalent term "useful fools" (полезные дураки, tr. polezniye duraki) was already in use in 1941. It was mockingly used against Russian (anti-communist) 'nihilists' who, for Polish agents, were said to be no more than "useful fools and silly enthusiasts".[6]

The term has been pejoratively used in the West for fellow travellers and other revolutionary communist sympathizers during the Cold War. The underlying accusation was that, despite the people in question thinking of themselves as standing for a benign socialist ideological cause, and as valued allies of the Soviet Union; they were actually held in contempt and were being cynically used by the Soviets for political purposes. The use of the term in political discourse has since been extended to other alleged propagandists, especially those who are seen to unwittingly support a supposedly malignant cause which they believe to be a just one.[7]

A New York Times article from 1948, on contemporary Italian politics, documented usage of the term in an article from the social-democratic Italian paper L'Umanita.[8] The French equivalent, "idiots utiles", was used in a newspaper article title in 1946.[9]

A similar term, useful innocents, appears in Austrian-American economist Ludwig von Mises's "Planned Chaos" (1947). Von Mises claims the term was used by communists for liberals that von Mises describes as "confused and misguided sympathizers".[10] The term useful innocents also appears in a Readers Digest article (1946) titled "Yugoslavia's Tragic Lesson to the World", an excerpt from a, at the time, forthcoming book (no title printed) authored by Bogdan Raditsa (Bogdan Radica), a "high ranking official of the Yugoslav Government". Raditsa says: "In the Serbo-Croat language the communists have a phrase for true democrats who consent to collaborate with them for 'democracy.' It is Korisne Budale, or Useful Innocents."[11]

A 2010 BBC radio documentary titled Useful Idiots listed among "useful idiots" of Joseph Stalin several prominent British writers including H. G. Wells and Doris Lessing, the Irish writer George Bernard Shaw, the American journalist Walter Duranty, and the singer Paul Robeson.[12]

In 2013 the term was applied several times to the former National Security Administration contractor Edward Snowden. Soon after his leaks of classified materials became public, American critics maintained he was unwittingly helping the governments of China and Russia score a propaganda victory by fleeing from the United States to Hong Kong and, subsequently, Moscow.[13] The accusation followed Snowden to Russia, and gained further adherence after an appearance on Russian State TV during a question/answer program with Russian President Vladimir Putin in April 2014. One eminent American expert on Russian affairs said that "liberals who support Edward Snowden have given succour to the Kremlin as it seeks to crush Ukrainian protesters".[14][15]
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GFB
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby GFB » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:38 pm

jellowrestling wrote:
Castle Doctrine wrote:
crackertoes wrote:"castle doctrine", you make many assumptions about people you do not know. Left, right, liberal, conservative, white, black, purple-people-eater or whatever... assuming comes down to that very basic, very childish mantra about the word assume as it pertains to people of which I'm sure you're well aware so we can move on from that point now.

You do not have to see anything any other way than your own which you've made quite obvious that you're not willing to, so there's really no point in discussing it, or attempting to discuss it, any further. So let's just agree that on this particular issue we disagree.



Killing healthy babies and harvesting them for parts is evil. Not much to discuss from there. The rest is just details.



Yep, not much to discuss. Killing healthy babies and harvesting their organs WOULD be evil...if it were happening. Those details that constitute the rest of the story mostly consist of the FACT that it IS NOT happening.

Is there something about that you don't understand or is it just that you don't like the fact it isn't really happening.


Harvesting body parts is exactly what's happening.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

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millergrovesue
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby millergrovesue » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:21 am

I favor Tall Drink Of Water but it's awfully long to type. You could be TDOW. :D

Yeah, I read several sources about useful idiots. I read enough to learn that I certainly am not one of them.
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Castle Doctrine
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby Castle Doctrine » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:15 am

Yep, not much to discuss. Killing healthy babies and harvesting their organs WOULD be evil...if it were happening. Those details that constitute the rest of the story mostly consist of the FACT that it IS NOT happening.

Is there something about that you don't understand or is it just that you don't like the fact it isn't really happening.


Harvesting body parts is exactly what's happening.[/quote]

I'm not sure which term to be aghast at...harvesting or "body parts". You see, it isn't "body parts". That is just not true. Allowing that harvesting is correct (and there is nothing wrong with the term) what are they "harvesting"? Try to follow, this is where you seem to get lost. They are HARVESTING donated fetal tissue. Fetal tissue donated by the PATIENT. It is being donated for research purposes. It certainly isn't being transplanted into some other fetus...although, that would be an interesting moral and ethical discussion to have.

I will agree that the idea is distasteful. Obviously, you find it more than distasteful. You certainly use the most pejorative terms you can in describing it. But, it is really just another common medical procedure. Call it what you will...collection, harvesting, carving out the tasty bits...it is the same procedure. And there is nothing at all wrong with it if it is what the woman has decided is the appropriate disposition for the fetal tissue she has just had removed.

Maybe you just have a weak stomach.

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GFB
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby GFB » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:22 am

"Fetal tissue donated by the patient."

Oh, the baby signed off on that?
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millergrovesue
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby millergrovesue » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:28 am

What I have trouble with is the concept that a woman would choose to kill her child. What's done after that is pretty much secondary in my opinion.
Working to love my fellow person regardless : >

Castle Doctrine
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby Castle Doctrine » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:43 am

GFB wrote:"Fetal tissue donated by the patient."

Oh, the baby signed off on that?


How lame...exactly what I expected when I chose my words...a remark in that vein.

Not even terribly clever.

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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby Castle Doctrine » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:52 am

millergrovesue wrote:What I have trouble with is the concept that a woman would choose to kill her child. What's done after that is pretty much secondary in my opinion.


It is often difficult to understand the actions of others we would never contemplate ourselves. But, I am sure there are women who think of it exactly that way. I can't but I don't feel justified in telling them they have to see it the same way I do.

I actually think what happens to the fetal tissue is important. A research lab seems much more dignified an end than an incinerator...after all, this COULD have been a person. Of course, I also think anyone donating in this way should name the child and the R&D should have to publicly acknowledge the donated fetus BY NAME. If it isn't to have a life we can at least bestow a little dignity on the child.

But, that is just me. I also firmly believe that if I can't put myself in someone else's position I should probably refrain from criticizing their actions. Maybe someday they will accord me the same respect.

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Sangersteve
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby Sangersteve » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:54 am

You certainly use the most pejorative terms you can in describing it. But, it is really just another common medical procedure. Call it what you will...collection, harvesting, carving out the tasty bits...it is the same procedure. And there is nothing at all wrong with it if it is what the woman has decided is the appropriate disposition for the fetal tissue she has just had removed.


In the absence of a tissue donation form(that practice is not addressed in the abortion form), it would appear that the tissue becomes the property of PPA. PPA is making a practice of "carving out the tasty bits" to ensure a better return on their investment, as referenced by the doctor in the video. Also in the video the doctor implies a cost, you may spin that into covering packaging and shipping, however the doctor goes on to explain,

NUCATOLA: I think for affiliates, at the end of the day, they’re a non-profit, they just don’t want to — they want to break even. And if they can do a little better than break even, and do so in a way that seems reasonable, they’re happy to do that. Really their bottom line is, they just, they want to break even. Every penny they save is just pennies they give to another patient. To provide a service the patient wouldn’t get otherwise.


That is a veiled effort to suggest they want a profit, and making a profit is against the law.

Reasonable is making sure the procedure is preformed in a way to make sure organs are intact, better to profit with.

So they are a bit more careful than that great humanitarian, Gosnell.

Why don't they just whip that tissue into a smoothie?
It's a joke son,I say a joke

ann jusko
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby ann jusko » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:57 am

Obnoxious!

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GFB
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby GFB » Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:02 am

If body parts from babies are valued enough to sell or donate..it stands to reason that sooner or later, some mothers will be pressured to kill them before they're born.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

Castle Doctrine
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby Castle Doctrine » Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:07 am

GFB wrote:If body parts from babies are valued enough to sell or donate..it stands to reason that sooner or later, some mothers will be pressured to kill them before they're born.



No it doesn't. Don't be ridiculous.

And again, it is tissue not parts. Tissue is a component...parts are sub-assemblies. Lordy, I don't know which is worse, your reasoning or your composition skills.

mayhem
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby mayhem » Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:19 am

What the Planned Parenthood hoax really proves: Right-wing extremists have no qualms about destroying peoples’ lives

Here's how:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article ... of_the_Day

mediamatters.org/research/2015/07/14/attack-on-planned-parenthood-3-deceptive-edits/204419
"A deceptive video from a conservative group purports to show a Planned Parenthood official discussing prices for the illegal sale of fetal tissue from abortions. But the full, unedited footage and transcript released by the group undermines their sensationalist claims, showing at least three crucial edits that reveal the Planned Parenthood official was instead discussing the reimbursement cost for consensual, legal tissue donations."


http://m.snopes.com/pp-baby-parts-sale/
Fair and balanced in ways Fox News is not.

http://wonkette.com/591066/why-is-plann ... ht-its-not
The wonkette piece is very crude but has a considerable point of view.


Whatever The Center for Medical Progress is trying prove, it isn't doing so with accuracy or fairness in mind.

Folks who are outraged (and I don't blame anyone who is), it seems to me, have an obligation to inform themselves what, exactly, is the basis of the outrage.

All I'm looking for is that those who are outraged make themselves familiar with the actual rather than the manufactured.

Simply saying of the CMP video that what I saw is 'enough' is not enough. We are wasting our time if we wrangle over the Strawman rather than the actual.
That's the dodge that made Rush 'successful.' Rush and his ilk.

TDOW
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millergrovesue
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby millergrovesue » Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:47 am

mayhem wrote:Folks who are outraged (and I don't blame anyone who is), it seems to me, have an obligation to inform themselves what, exactly, is the basis of the outrage.

All I'm looking for is that those who are outraged make themselves familiar with the actual rather than the manufactured.

Simply saying of the CMP video that what I saw is 'enough' is not enough. We are wasting our time if we wrangle over the Strawman rather than the actual.
That's the dodge that made Rush 'successful.' Rush and his ilk.


Agree.
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GFB
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby GFB » Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:19 am

"Livers".."lungs" etc.

These aren't just body parts..these are vital organs..fir which the abortionist is instructed to take great care when they chop up the baby..in order to not injure the organ.

This conversation brings truth and reality to the abortion issue.

Truth and reality harm liberals..every time.
If you’re “woke”..you’re a loser.

ralph
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby ralph » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:14 am

GFB wrote:"Livers".."lungs" etc.

These aren't just body parts..these are vital organs..fir which the abortionist is instructed to take great care when they chop up the baby..in order to not injure the organ.

This conversation brings truth and reality to the abortion issue.

Truth and reality harm liberals..every time.

good points Greg , I've mostly stayed away from this thread as I see it as a lefty - righty opinion thread . Course your last post that I quote sums up the reality of abortion quite nicely .

ralph
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby ralph » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:15 am

AND 'lefties' sure are Evil !!

jellowrestling
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby jellowrestling » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:19 pm

Castle Doctrine wrote:
GFB wrote:If body parts from babies are valued enough to sell or donate..it stands to reason that sooner or later, some mothers will be pressured to kill them before they're born.

No it doesn't. Don't be ridiculous.

And again, it is tissue not parts. Tissue is a component...parts are sub-assemblies. Lordy, I don't know which is worse, your reasoning or your composition skills.

You are not a philosopher, a gentleman, well-reasoned or, as far as I am concerned, welcome here.
You are a troll. There is no "ignore" feature on this board, but I will no longer read or respond to your arrogant, abusive posts.

ann jusko
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Re: For Sale: Baby parts

Postby ann jusko » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:31 pm

Don't trust the veracity of Snopes and still want to ram that fork down her throat and hopefully it will hit the one of the arteries.


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