The Pope and politics

[Castle Doctrine]

Sue, most Catholics in the U.S. are Catholics because that is how they were baptized and raised.

I didn't choose anything, although as an adult I could certainly choose to leave.

That's pretty much my understanding too, Greg. I think many people were raised in X faith, don't practice it, but identify themselves as X faith. I don't attend church up here but still consider myself Baptist.

I, on the other hand, DECIDED I would become Catholic. It was not thrust upon me or inherited by circumstance. I attend Mass and am an observant member of the flock. I accept the tenets of the faith and try to live within them. Like everyone (including Mother Teresa) I have had my moments of doubt and uncertainty but I deal with it. I have never disputed the Pope's (any Pope's) authority to lead the Church as God inspires, moves and directs him regardless of my personal feeling on the issues. I got a lot of practice at that under Benedict.

I am distressed that American Catholics (such as this Gozar creature) are disrespecting the leader of their Church for strictly partisan political purposes...boycotting his appearances, assuming they somehow have the right to determine what his "area" is or should be, calling him names publically because he doesn't think like an American Conservative...and I think that is wrong. I hold them to no higher standard than I hold myself. That seems fair to me.

[Castle Doctrine]

But this thing of insulting large groups is out of line. .................Why smear a bunch of people of good faith just to get at me by inclusion.

Oh come now. That's exactly what you've been doing here with all of your "You people" statements.

Not really. First, this isn't a large diverse group here. It is pretty small and not diverse at all. I use the term "you people" strictly to denote the posters here...it has no intended application to a wider group. To reference any larger, external group I use Conservative or the Right primarily (unless I am in a really snarky mood). I really adopted the "you people" because of a remark Jusko made about "outsiders".

If I wish to insult someone here I just say what I feel is needed. I have no need to try to disguise my intent or my contempt by including a whole class o people I don't even know. You know, the truth is, I seldom set out specifically to insult someone. It just happens in the course of addressing our points of disagreement...but at times...well, you know.

So, no, it isn't "exactly" like I have been doing here with my adoption of "you people" as a generic reference to the majority membership of this forum. It certainly isn't like declaring that all converts are goofy or that all Liberals are stupid or evil. But, thanks for the feedback. Hope I clarified it for you.

[millergrovesue]

I get really tired of people thinking all Baptists are Southern Baptists...............but what ya gonna do? People are entitled to think whatever they wish whether or not it's correct or right or even intelligent.

[BillB]

I get really tired of people thinking all Baptists are Southern Baptists...............but what ya gonna do? People are entitled to think whatever they wish whether or not it's correct or right or even intelligent.

I didn't know people thought that.
There are Northern Baptists, Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists, Free-Will Baptists, Primitive Baptists and I'm sure several more.
By the way- In England most Baptists are Calvinists.

[Castle Doctrine]

I get really tired of people thinking all Baptists are Southern Baptists...............but what ya gonna do? People are entitled to think whatever they wish whether or not it's correct or right or even intelligent.

I'm guilty as charged...it is an almost immediate assumption especially if you were raised in TX. You might try what I do when I tell someone I'm Catholic and they reply "Oh, I'm a Christian."...enlighten them.

Now, I would differ about that "entitled to think whatever" statement. I can see your point from one perspective...everyone is entitled to and will believe whatever they want. However, for purposes of discussion in civil circumstances some nod should be given reality, validity and understanding. It really isn't okay to think all Moslems are wild-eyed terrorists bent on our destruction or that all Liberals/Conservatives are this way or that or that someone hates America and is bent on destroying us because they disagree with you...at least, it didn't use to be.

So, I am aware of a couple of brands of Baptist (even though I seldom think about it)...or do you adhere to any of them. Just curious...none of them offend me particularly...or appeal to me.

[BigTex]

Do you think 'troomp' is upset that the Pope is getting more press?

[Red Oak]

If Pope Francis is updating the Roman Catholic Church to be inline with popular culture; why doesn't he ditch the dress

[GFB]

..so youconverted from nothing to being a Catholic..same deal.

[millergrovesue]

So, I am aware of a couple of brands of Baptist (even though I seldom think about it)...or do you adhere to any of them. Just curious...none of them offend me particularly...or appeal to me.

I was raised in First Baptist Austin. It is my church and has been all my life even though I can't attend. FBC belongs to the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. It is, by the standards of north Texas, a very liberal (read all inclusive and loving) organization. But no Baptist church is dictated to by any "parent" organization. All are autonomous.

My church welcomes all regardless of race, sexual orientation or financial circumstances. Being a downtown church it has a very large homeless ministry and a goodly number of homeless members. Also has been integrated since the 1930s, at least and has active members of many ethnic origins. One of the black families has attended since I was a tiny kid. Now grands and great grands are members. It also serves several latino communities. I know there is a Brazilian church that meets there. I think there are others also.

Has had women serving as ministers and deacons forever (I've mentioned before that my Mom has been a deacon for more than 35 years). My Mom started a fund for those with monetary needs years ago. The Hope Fund helps with temporary financial needs as well as emergency funds. It has helped huge numbers of folks over the years but is just one of the many ministries within the church.

My church made a clear inclusion statement, lest there be any doubt, last year. My brother and his husband were the first gay couple to marry there. To my thinking my church is everything God intended a church to be. They don't just talk and throw money while keeping their hands clean, they put God's love into action in the trenches.

[millergrovesue]

Now, I would differ about that "entitled to think whatever" statement. I can see your point from one perspective...everyone is entitled to and will believe whatever they want. However, for purposes of discussion in civil circumstances some nod should be given reality, validity and understanding. It really isn't okay to think all Moslems are wild-eyed terrorists bent on our destruction or that all Liberals/Conservatives are this way or that or that someone hates America and is bent on destroying us because they disagree with you...at least, it didn't use to be.

Even if they are hate filled idiots people are, at least in this country, entitled to believe and say what they want. Doesn't mean we have to accept or agree with them but they do have the right to be ignorant a-holes if they wish..............and some take that privilege and run right into the pig sty with it......as we well know.

[GFB]

If this Pope had any intention of helping the poor..he would be preaching in FAVOR of Capitalism..not against it.

Even in his own country, everything went down the toilet when left wing governments took over.

[jellowrestling]

But this thing of insulting large groups is out of line. .................Why smear a bunch of people of good faith just to get at me by inclusion.

Oh come now. That's exactly what you've been doing here with all of your "You people" statements.

He's just a troll. Why encourage him?

[jellowrestling]

Figures CD is a convert to Catholocism..converts all seem to be goofy.

Lame and untrue statement.

I've actually spent about five minutes trying to figure this one out. The non-Catholic is telling the Catholic that his perception about converts to HIS religion is wrong. MGS, I think it's safe to assume that GFB is basing his opinion on his experience with converts in his church. What are you basing yours on?

[Mark]

The Pope is a communist.

[ralph]

Seems so ehh Mark ??

[mayhem]

We should turn to the bible for a few answers.

First, Jesus constantly preached about caring for the sick, the wounded, the halt and the lame. Pope Francis is not a communist (or a marxist) but he does believe in following the leadership of the bible which demands that he care for those who can't care for themselves and admonishes those who can. Please read the gospels, and Paul, etc.

Second, Jesus did not come to ferry souls to heaven. The bible very carefully explains that Jesus came to bring us to believe god. Of course he talked about heaven, but heaven is something that takes place after we figure out whether or not we accept god's will. Period.

Third, the pope (nor the Church) never, never teach(es) that the pope, in every day circumstances (and his visit is one) is fallible. It is only when a pope issues a papal bull ex cathedra. Infallible is not an every day kind of thing.

Fourth, Jesus was very political (he attacked the 'king,' the elites, the wealthy; he lifted up the poor and suffering). His very life was political. (In my and many other's opinions).

These statements arise, not from opinion, but by a plain reading of scripture. Opinions may direct the way believers do things, but the starting place is obedience and humility. Or maybe you have another opinion about the bible?

[Mark]

We should turn to the bible for a few answers.

First, Jesus constantly preached about caring for the sick, the wounded, the halt and the lame. Pope Francis is not a communist (or a marxist) but he does believe in following the leadership of the bible which demands that he care for those who can't care for themselves and admonishes those who can. Please read the gospels, and Paul, etc.

Please quote me the scripture where Jesus said to take from your neighbor in order to care for the sick, the wounded, the halt, and the lame.

[mayhem]

Luke 3.11.

There.

[mayhem]

You said '...the scripture ...' and I thought about this one and picked the other one instead.
But for extra points here's this one: Lk 14.12-14

Hey, I can do this all day if you want. Would you like to stop this now?

O, and another good one: 'Sell your possessions, and give to the needy.'

We should turn to the bible for a few answers.

First, Jesus constantly preached about caring for the sick, the wounded, the halt and the lame. Pope Francis is not a communist (or a marxist) but he does believe in following the leadership of the bible which demands that he care for those who can't care for themselves and admonishes those who can. Please read the gospels, and Paul, etc.

Please quote me the scripture where Jesus said to take from your neighbor in order to care for the sick, the wounded, the halt, and the lame.

[GFB]

"Sell your possessions" is a far cry from "take from your neighbor."