The Pope and politics

[Mark]

"Sell your possessions" is a far cry from "take from your neighbor."

Absolutely.

[Mark]

Luke 3:11New International Version (NIV)

11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”


Nope, nothing there about taking from your neighbor.


Luke 14:12-14New International Version (NIV)

12 Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. 13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”


Nope, nothing there about taking from your neighbor, either.

I'll give you a hint. The scripture you are looking for does not exist. There isn't anything about charity that involves taking from one for the purpose of giving to another.

[BigTex]

Quote attributed to Henry Ford:

Givers have to set limits because takers never do.

[BillB]

I'd also like scripture supporting this post:

Fourth, Jesus was very political (he attacked the 'king,' the elites, the wealthy; he lifted up the poor and suffering). His very life was political. (In my and many other's opinions).

Show me a passage when Jesus talked politics of any kind.

Had Jesus wanted to wax political He had plenty of subject matter. Rome ruled the Judea that Jesus lived in. Rebellion was plotted and talked about everywhere. Jesus never touched it. He couldn't have cared less. His Kingdom was not of this Earth. The pope should be more like Him.

[Red Oak]

Marx, Matthew, Luke, and John ?

[GFB]

Marx, Matthew, Luke, and John ?

Ah!

The Beatles!

[mayhem]

Oh, ye Gods

Here: Let's get this out of the way right away: Jesus was political.

His preaching was tinged with political statements. His healings carried massive political implications for the ways we structure our world and understand our neighbor. His execution was of the kind reserved for acts of political disruption. That is, he died on a cross because the political authorities of his day saw him as a threat to the political structures and order of his day.

Jesus was political. His preaching was political. His ministry was political. You want actual words? How about Is. 55 (from Jesus' bible)? I'm sorry. You are wrong. Read the gospels.

Did he use those words? Perhaps not in a literal sense, but what he intended was politically defying Rome (and with it Rome's lackey ... Herod.) He politically engaged the sadducees and he constantly went after the pharisees for over=emphasizing the law. That is/was political. His mission, and he never quit teaching it was: obedience to God and salvation (salvation=being made whole or 'healed' ...) In Israel, healing itself was a political ... pls see John 5 (the leaders of the people charged Jesus with healing on the Sabbath... a completely political act.)

Tell me please, have you ever read the bible?

Jesus condemned the wealthy for misusing, not having, money and his clear meaning in that was political. He was esp critical of the misuse of force.
He was completely opposed to violence (not saying he denied self defense).

Bottom line? Jesus was very political we should remember that both the Romans and the Jews tended to mingle religion and law and their way of doing things did NOT have a fine line separating the two. So, it was difficult not to be political.

And the pope, in my opinion, is refreshingly like Jesus. I have a fuller answer to part of this misunderstanding on your part in the thing about evolution/Carson.

I'd also like scripture supporting this post:

Fourth, Jesus was very political (he attacked the 'king,' the elites, the wealthy; he lifted up the poor and suffering). His very life was political. (In my and many other's opinions).

Show me a passage when Jesus talked politics of any kind.

Had Jesus wanted to wax political He had plenty of subject matter. Rome ruled the Judea that Jesus lived in. Rebellion was plotted and talked about everywhere. Jesus never touched it. He couldn't have cared less. His Kingdom was not of this Earth. The pope should be more like Him.

[mayhem]

Very sorry. Let me try it this way, how do you read this? Is it understandable? Does it put forth concepts that are familiar to you? How about how the concepts mesh? Easy to understand truth? Really? Do you know who said this and do you think he meant it?

"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."


"Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, 26"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. 27"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.…

Jesus seriously said that? Yep. And he meant it.

Just like Jesus said, "Give him the coat." It wasn't a democracy and they didn't practice capitalism. You can' t understand it that way any other than Jesus meant that the guy should share by giving his coat to the one without one. Jesus, in a real way, took the guy's other coat and told him to give it to the less fortunate. You can't parse it any other way.

In that society, when the voice of god tells you to do something, you do it. That's the way that society was structured.

Yes! By god Jesus told them all to give away their second coats to those who did not have one and he keeps on saying things like that.

I really don't like it when those who know almost nothing about Jesus, the bible and ancient Judaism try to lecture me on what scripture means, says, or doesn't say.

By the way, the above was the ancient near eastern way of stating preference. It had nothing to do with 'hate.' But going by your uninformed standards; if Jesus said something he meant it and if he didn't say anything about it, he must have meant that too.

I don't mean this in a mean spirited way; I am serious. Why don't you read your bibles before you decide to say what you think it means?

Luke 3:11New International Version (NIV)

11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”


Nope, nothing there about taking from your neighbor.


Luke 14:12-14New International Version (NIV)

12 Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. 13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”


Nope, nothing there about taking from your neighbor, either.

I'll give you a hint. The scripture you are looking for does not exist. There isn't anything about charity that involves taking from one for the purpose of giving to another.

[mayhem]

Really?

Do you think Jesus meant it when he said, '... take the log out of your eye ..."?

"Sell your possessions" is a far cry from "take from your neighbor."

Absolutely.

[mayhem]

Oh, goodie!

Welcome to the dance, Flag Boy!!! I will treasure your attempt to school me.

But I'll treasure your ignoring me even more. Unlike you, I don't need a lot
of attention.

Find anything in the bible that Marx would disagree with. Okie dokie???

Marx, Matthew, Luke, and John ?

[mayhem]

If I haven't convinced you yet, and I probably won't, I'll just add this:

"The person who has two coats must share with the one who ..."

[Mark]

Very sorry. Let me try it this way, how do you read this? Is it understandable? Does it put forth concepts that are familiar to you? How about how the concepts mesh? Easy to understand truth? Really? Do you know who said this and do you think he meant it?

"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."


"Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, 26"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. 27"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.…

Jesus seriously said that? Yep. And he meant it.

Just like Jesus said, "Give him the coat." It wasn't a democracy and they didn't practice capitalism. You can' t understand it that way any other than Jesus meant that the guy should share by giving his coat to the one without one. Jesus, in a real way, took the guy's other coat and told him to give it to the less fortunate. You can't parse it any other way.

In that society, when the voice of god tells you to do something, you do it. That's the way that society was structured.

Yes! By god Jesus told them all to give away their second coats to those who did not have one and he keeps on saying things like that.

I really don't like it when those who know almost nothing about Jesus, the bible and ancient Judaism try to lecture me on what scripture means, says, or doesn't say.

By the way, the above was the ancient near eastern way of stating preference. It had nothing to do with 'hate.' But going by your uninformed standards; if Jesus said something he meant it and if he didn't say anything about it, he must have meant that too.

I don't mean this in a mean spirited way; I am serious. Why don't you read your bibles before you decide to say what you think it means?

Luke 3:11New International Version (NIV)

11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”


Nope, nothing there about taking from your neighbor.


Luke 14:12-14New International Version (NIV)

12 Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. 13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”


Nope, nothing there about taking from your neighbor, either.

I'll give you a hint. The scripture you are looking for does not exist. There isn't anything about charity that involves taking from one for the purpose of giving to another.

You've stung together a bunch of words, and still haven't showed me where it says in the scripture to take from your neighbor to give your other neighbor.

This is something the Left can never understand. The Left believes that stealing from for the purpose of giving to another is charity. It simply is not, and it is absolutely not biblical.

And BTW, don't talk down to me, dumbass.

[Mark]

It's very amusing that the Godless left has suddenly found religion because the current Pope happens to be a Communist.

[millergrovesue]

I always enjoy your positive, tolerant, and upbeat comments, Mark.

[planosteve]

I don't have any problem with the Pope vising the US, traveling around, blowing smoke, and kissing spastics. That's fine. But, I don't agree with him being allowed to officially address the Congress just because the outgoing speaker happens to be Catholic. And we don't do that for other Christian denominations. So why just Catholics? How is that fair?

[mayhem]

I don't think I talked down to you.

The fact is that you seem to know little or nothing about the
bible. What you are saying is not so, but what you have said
is fair as far as it goes.

I reserve the right to correct you when you are so very wrong.

I think, it is the sine qua non of the gospels, that Jesus meant
exactly what he said. I did not say he promoted disobeying the law --
you set you set up that equation the equation up and it's a false
dichotomy. Like have you stopped beating
your wife yet.

I tried to explain to you that the saying "If you have two coats ...,"
means it, but you can't deal with that reality.

The command to give up a coat is endemic to Jesus and his
teaching. Where do you think 'his' coat is supposed to
come from? Apparently it is no longer his.

Jesus said more about money than any one other thing.
If you don't like that teaching, at least admit it.

The reason I feel my response is clear is the force of Jesus'
teaching. His teaching becomes meaningless if you take out
these commands.

Another reason is: no one is asking or telling anyone else to
take anything that belongs to someone else opportunistically.

Now if you don't like that the taxation of citizens as is the law, change
the lawmakers.

And the law in this case is teaching the same or a similar thing:
we are here in large part to care for our neighbors ... do unto your
neighbors. It's right there in black and white.

It's very crazy-making to argue scriptural points with some
one who apparently knows virtually nothing about the bible.

And YOU are talking down to me. At least, at the
very least, I know what I am talking about. Not saying
there can't be a variety of opinions but I am saying that
bible demands (not asks) that we help our neighbors as
long as they need it.

Jesus' point? They were not doing it.

[Red Oak]

Crap the other Troll came back !

[mayhem]

This is completely inane if you're referring to me.

I was struggling with blatant racism in the south when white Christians
were preventing! black people from worshipping in 'their' churches.

I have a long history with the church and I've been on the Jesus
bandwagon for most of my life.

To use the biblical wordplay of Jesus himself: I hate the church ... but I love
Jesus. You probably don't know what that means bec you don't read
what I write. And that's cowardly of you.

Don't call me 'godless' and do not tell me I have found religion because
of anything outside of me.

You don't know anything about me.

But you are lying about the pope and you know it.

It's very amusing that the Godless left has suddenly found religion because the current Pope happens to be a Communist.

[mayhem]

If you mean by 'troll,' someone who attempts to ignite conversation about
important issues, I am a troll ...

... but if I rain on the parades of Flag Boy and Gerbil Dancing, then puhlease
follow up on your commitment to put me on ignore. I'm tired of
pointless chatter about issues you do not comprehend (the bible, Jesus,
the church and salvation). Mark, too, by the by. Mark, you can hunt and
peck and prove almost anything you want with the bible. I am using the
words of Jesus in context. You?

You seem to find meaning with issues that are not mentioned directly.

I encourage you to contact a clergyperson or a seminary biblical scholar
and ask he or her about your opinions compared with mine.

I respectfully ask that you only approach schools that are accredited.

[Mark]

Blah, blah, blah

Idiot.