Bombing of Doctors without Borders Hospital

[ralph]

just some info . --- https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 118AA9OTuu ---

[planosteve]

You need to read the whole article, but this is the conclusion

The Kunduz Massacre was not a matter of “less risk to friendlies”. It was a matter of ignoring friendlies altogether. It was a matter of specifically targeting friendlies. If there was “situational awareness”, then the bombing was instigated by murderers. There is no reason at this time to assume that situational awareness was absent. Indeed, given the communications from MSF that included precise locations, given the length of the attack and its targets, and given the fact that the AC-130 was used, we have to assume that situational awareness was present. This implies that the attack was intentional.

Possible contributing factors that led to the decision to bomb the hospital: (1) frustration with the battlefield success by the Taliban in taking Kunduz; (2) frustration and resentment with the role of Doctors Without Borders in treating all comers; (3) frustration of a possible sanctuary for Taliban fighters; (4) desire to score (fight) and get revenge; (5) desire to send a message to the Taliban, no matter what the costs were to “friendlies”. To these possibly subterranean motivations must be added the possibility of sheer incompetence.Somewhere along the line, some person or persons on the American side made this decision.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/sorting-out-the-kunduz-massacre/

[grouchy]

I have not read all if the thread, but I know that we have at least one regular here that wants lots of collateral damage. Does that apply in this case?

[planosteve]

I have not read all if the thread, but I know that we have at least one regular here that wants lots of collateral damage. Does that apply in this case?

I don't know who you are referring to. But, I certainly don't want any! My instinct was that this wasn't a screw up.

[grouchy]

I have not read all if the thread, but I know that we have at least one regular here that wants lots of collateral damage. Does that apply in this case?

I don't know who you are referring to. But, I certainly don't want any! My instinct was that this wasn't a screw up.

It has never been you that I have noticed.

[Castle Doctrine]

steve

When did AC 130s become bombers ?



Read the claim by cd and it made me wonder when it took on that additional duty

The AC-130 is NOT a bomber in the conventional sense. It is a very sophisticated dedicated ground support aircraft. In this capacity it has existed since sometime in the late 60s. It comes in a number of variants. The A model is retired and maybe a couple of more by now. As far as I know the U variant is the most current. The program is a direct descendant of the AC-47 gunship of Vietnam fame.

The number of variants in type is because of the diverse armament packages. The A/C can come with anything from specially designed bomb to 105mm cannon. The series has very advanced EMC and avionic to enhance battlefield survivability. The A/C operated in the area of 5000 feet generally and orbits the target to allow concentration on the target. The variant with the 105mm had the big gun mounted axially so could only make those firing runs head on. I have a friend who served in them. He says the 105mm would almost stall the A/C.

Ok. That is a general summary of the platform and its origins. I'm not really an expert on this area but I really LIKE gunships. Want to talk naval subjects? There I am an expert.

[Castle Doctrine]

My point is if your going to claim to be an expert on something, be prepared to explain what makes you an expert. If your not willing to do that then don't try to use that as an argument. Nobody is going to believe you on that basis anyway. Examples: I'm smarter than you are. I went to college and you didn't. I have more experience than you do. That's as juvenile as a couple of kids arguing "mine is longer that yours is".

First, let me congratulate you on a very smooth troll. You are really a troll of the first order. You had me on the defensive before I realized it. On the other hand, it was interesting to revisit Wolfie's "Doctrine" and re-examine Clark's comments. After that exchange I was pretty sure you were just screwing around but, hey, it was entertaining.

I did not really claim to be an expert however. I claimed expertise based on my experience. You never actually claimed any expertise (except as a troll after the fact) or established any real credibility. I detailed (in so far as I am willing) my basis for feeling I had the expertise I asserted. So, your statement that, "My point is if your going to claim to be an expert on something, be prepared to explain what makes you an expert. If your not willing to do that then don't try to use that as an argument." is just more trolling. I did exactly that but you just ignored it...as troll are wont to do.

I will agree with you that a lot of what goes on here is very reminiscent of how I remember Junior High School...insiders, outsiders, macho posturing, bullying, threatening, massive name-calling. You people ( and, yes, I am including you) are incredibly adolescent. For example, you were the one that went ballistic with the "show me yours" crap, not me. I believe I responded in a polite and reasonable manner as well as addressing your complaints.

You are an accomplished troll. I give you that. You ignore losing so well, like about the "institutional violence" discussion. You agreed it happened then tried to explain it away. Several of your posse agreed with you. I was done at that point. I had my admission.

I really don't troll, but I get labelled one. You admit it and are a hero. Do you see the conflict there? I doubt it.

[planosteve]

At least I admitted to being a kind of a troll, I'm pretty successful at it. I've been here since 2005.

[Castle Doctrine]

At least I admitted to being a kind of a troll, I'm pretty successful at it. I've been here since 2005.

So, you get high marks for honesty. I think you are suggesting I am a troll. That isn't true. I never take a position I don't truly believe in. I enjoy discussing this stuff seriously. It makes me an easy target. But, it doesn't make me a troll.

This place is pretty toxic (ideologically). I take it you see the idiocy as well as I do. You troll it. I try to address it seriously...because it scares me a great deal.

[millergrovesue]

I try to address it seriously...because it scares me a great deal.

It doesn't scare me because I think the kind of hate speech we see here is not the least bit common place. Thankfully in the real world I don't know anyone who believes the crazy crap that some on this board believe. I choose to believe most of the folks here who appear to be nut jobs are indeed trolls who don't really believe what they write...........despite their denials of same.

'Sides, there are some nice sane folks here too. Most just don't post often enough.

[GFB]

Sue, who here do you think doesn't believe what they say?

I have wondered about Planosteve..but no one else.

[planosteve]

At least I admitted to being a kind of a troll, I'm pretty successful at it. I've been here since 2005.

So, you get high marks for honesty. I think you are suggesting I am a troll. That isn't true. I never take a position I don't truly believe in. I enjoy discussing this stuff seriously. It makes me an easy target. But, it doesn't make me a troll.

This place is pretty toxic (ideologically). I take it you see the idiocy as well as I do. You troll it. I try to address it seriously...because it scares me a great deal.

Actually, I don't think you are a troll, whatever that means. But I don't really spend time thinking about it.
People's opinions here are pretty typical of Texas. They pretty much match what you hear on talk radio which permeates the airwaves here.

[ralph]

hate speech , whatever that is but where is it , I don't see it . I see discussion of Rush , old dawg Sandra fluck, mrobama , silly doctors that are in the wrong place getting bombed . I see feminazi , mr new castrate being discussed but I see NO so called hate speech whatever that is . Is hate speech [so called] something to be avoided , is it illegal or what ?? Socalled hate speech sounds pretty nebulous of a concept to me Sue .

[planosteve]

silly doctors that are in the wrong place getting bombed .

Is that really what you believe they were?

[Mark]

I just love it when the brain-dead Lefties call facts and truth "hate speech."

[ralph]

I keep hearing that they were doctors , if so bomb them as they treat 'Islamic state' and so called friendlies or whatever they are Steve [muslims] . No American troop were in the hospital so to heck with them all . As I said , silly people in a war zone , maybe they'll smarten up . Well , not the dead docs but maybe in the future the doctors and dentists working in war zones will do good works in Western Lands . They can do lots of free toot implants to very poor people in Appalachia . A couple thousand or so teef implants will help them get into heaven !! ---------------------------------------------------------- Agreed Mark !!

[GFB]

I keep hearing that they were doctors , if so bomb them as they treat 'Islamic state' and so called friendlies or whatever they are Steve [muslims] . No American troop were in the hospital so to heck with them all . As I said , silly people in a war zone , maybe they'll smarten up . Well , not the dead docs but maybe in the future the doctors and dentists working in war zones will do good works in Western Lands . They can do lots of free toot implants to very poor people in Appalachia . A couple thousand or so teef implants will help them get into heaven !! ---------------------------------------------------------- Agreed Mark !!

If they're in a war zone treating the enemy..they're the enemy.

[GFB]

Sue, who here do you think doesn't believe what they say?

I have wondered about Planosteve..but no one else.

Bump

[millergrovesue]

Sue, who here do you think doesn't believe what they say?

I have wondered about Planosteve..but no one else.

I said I choose to believe some don't really believe what you are saying. If those folks actually do believe the crap spewed than I'm sad for all.

[ann jusko]

I'm appalled at the attitude of some posters here. Doctors without Borders is a very fine organization. Why do you think they became doctors and nurses? Because they are "helping" human beings! Just because YOU aren't doesn't mean we don't desparately need care takers. Selfish and uncaring about people...... Most medical staff volunteers for 6 months at a time and then back to their practices in the U.S. So many volunteer to go to teach native doctors new procedures in surgery, infectious diseases. My son's girlfriend goes to Honduras once a year. One of his best friend's wife, a doctor, volunteers to go and teach new surgical techniques to doctors in foreign lands. I admire both of them so much and am a little jealous that I can't do it.
I really can't stand the ones who, while not contributing much to society have the arrogance to condemn or belittle the ones who do have a calling to help their fellow humans. Sorry you're so bankrupt morally.