Run , hide , tell in case of terror attack in England

[Zelda]

never been to England or anywhere outside the USA except for Canada and about an hour in 'mexico' which was the time it took to get over the border and then turn around and head back to the USA . Talk about poverty and no organization . Huge amount of beggars on the way out selling trinkets made in 'china' . -------------------- Anyway , what I know of GUNchester is reading and communicating with blokes on English message boards . Plus this --- http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-13029371 ---

It's Manchester not Gunchester Ralph.......I posted the figures above of 35 gun fatalities in 10 years, and that was at the height of the troubles in Manchester.
I love my city.....you may read of the worst aspects of it and think you know better, however you are over 4500 miles away, I live here.
Obviously like any major city we have crime, but in comparison to many places it's a peaceful place to live.

[jellowrestling]

One of my favorite old shotguns is a Thomas Newton of Manchester, circa 1895.

Off had I can't think of a family member or friend that doesn't have multiple Firearms in their home, and about half have one on their person

Until a few years ago a worked for an international company and we had this twit from Belgium come over to the Dallas Office for training. I can't remember what brought the subject up, but this discussion turned to why he thought Americans being armed was a bad idea. His premise was that firearms introduced into any situation made it too dangerous. We explained to him we were different; and he sniffed that Europeans were more "Evolved". That did it.

So half of the office was carrying that day, and we started pulling out our Gats and showing them off to him, safely of course. He nearly wet his britches.

And I told him as far as being more "Evolved", if that meant Communism, Fascism, and Socialism; I wanted to remain a primitive !

That's it in a nutshell Red Oak. People, cultures, mindsets are different. The time to conform to someone else's ideas is when you move from the area you have been brought up in to a part of the world that has different views and laws.
Some interloper telling you your way is wrong is as bad as someone coming here and telling us our way is wrong.

Another issue is that northern Europe is very different from the Americas. There are many countries in the Americas (including our neighbor, Mexico, which has strict gun control laws) which have higher murder rates.

[mayhem]

Zelda,

Don't know you but I'm glad 'to meet you' and get to know a Brit cousin. It's Christmas (well ... almost) and I don't covet controversy, so I will foreswear.

I will say that, as you can clearly see, there are wildly differing points of view re: guns, gun control, gun outa control, nra, and unremitting violence. I'll jump in with some facts that speak for themselves but not today. It's absurd to compare gun violence in the US with Mexico.


Wayne LaPierre(?) is unhinged and cannot speak in public without stuttering. And some of his followers even appeal to a "God given right" to guns, et al.


Anyhow, there are differences and significant issues that speak to both sides of the issue(s).

I have worded this far more soberly than the discussion so far deserves.

Much more sometime later.

And, Zelda, stick to your guns. Remember that Jellow and Red affirm that I am entitled. Period.
We'll see if they can stand it.

No problem Red Oak, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I would never try to convince anyone here that our way is best.....just as anyone here could not persuade me that your way is.
I am convinced though that if our law re gun ownership was the same as yours, we would have a hell of a lot more shootings, and not always in self defence either.
Unfortunately a nutter with a gun is a lot more dangerous than a sane person with one.

Zelda, a lot of us on this board are gun owners, and I don't recall hearing any incidents of shootings. What is rarely reported is that, statistically-speaking, almost all of the murders occur in the U.S. that have the strictest gun laws. Liberals make the excuse that it's because guns come in from other areas, but the truth is that liberal policies have destroyed many of the inner urban areas where they have destroyed families with counterproductive liberal policies. In the rest of America, gun violence is very infrequent.

I am 57 years old, and in my entire life, I have had one neighbor murdered, and one neighbor assaulted and nearly killed. The former was killed by his sons with a baseball bat, and the latter was stabbed by a man who broke into her house while she was sleeping (fortunately, our next-door neighbor was a registered nurse, and she crawled to her door and rang the bell, and her life was saved). I had another neighbor confront a burglar as the miscreant entered the window. The burglar set his shoes inside the window and started to climb in, but my neighbor racked his shotgun and told him to "Stop right there". The criminal panicked and jumped out of the window and ran. Turns out he had also left his wallet inside the shoes, and he was caught. I'm not suggesting that no one outside the inner cities is killed, but with those removed, America's incident of gun deaths is comparable to pretty much any other country.

So the gun laws have served you well then Jellowrestling.
However the statistics show that there is a lot more gun crime in the states compared to the UK though, I'm sure it depends on the area you live in and the company you keep which dictates how many people you know who have been murdered.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-inf ... ates/Crime

I live in Manchester, there are some rough areas as well as some very nice areas, in my 60 plus years I personally know of no one who has been murdered. I know no one who keeps a firearm in their home either.

[Zelda]

Zelda,

Don't know you but I'm glad 'to meet you' and get to know a Brit cousin. It's Christmas (well ... almost) and I don't covet controversy, so I will foreswear.

I will say that, as you can clearly see, there are wildly differing points of view re: guns, gun control, gun outa control, nra, and unremitting violence. I'll jump in with some facts that speak for themselves but not today. It's absurd to compare gun violence in the US with Mexico.


Wayne LaPierre(?) is unhinged and cannot speak in public without stuttering. And some of his followers even appeal to a "God given right" to guns, et al.


Anyhow, there are differences and significant issues that speak to both sides of the issue(s).

I have worded this far more soberly than the discussion so far deserves.

Much more sometime later.

And, Zelda, stick to your guns. Remember that Jellow and Red affirm that I am entitled. Period.
We'll see if they can stand it.]

Hi Mayhem pleased to meet you too.

Yes there are differing views and people feel strongly about the subject. I respect everyones opinion but I certainly don't agree with most that have been put forwards here....just as some will never agree with my views.
I will take your advice and 'stick to my guns' and reading statistics like those shown below who could blame me?

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

[Kiamichi]

One of my favorite old shotguns is a Thomas Newton of Manchester, circa 1895.

Off had I can't think of a family member or friend that doesn't have multiple Firearms in their home, and about half have one on their person

Until a few years ago a worked for an international company and we had this twit from Belgium come over to the Dallas Office for training. I can't remember what brought the subject up, but this discussion turned to why he thought Americans being armed was a bad idea. His premise was that firearms introduced into any situation made it too dangerous. We explained to him we were different; and he sniffed that Europeans were more "Evolved". That did it.

So half of the office was carrying that day, and we started pulling out our Gats and showing them off to him, safely of course. He nearly wet his britches.

And I told him as far as being more "Evolved", if that meant Communism, Fascism, and Socialism; I wanted to remain a primitive !

That's it in a nutshell Red Oak. People, cultures, mindsets are different. The time to conform to someone else's ideas is when you move from the area you have been brought up in to a part of the world that has different views and laws.
Some interloper telling you your way is wrong is as bad as someone coming here and telling us our way is wrong.

Another issue is that northern Europe is very different from the Americas. There are many countries in the Americas (including our neighbor, Mexico, which has strict gun control laws) which have higher murder rates.

Except for Canada probably every country in the Americas, plus Greenland, has a higher murder rate than the U. S. regardless of what their official figures may claim. The only exceptions might be Chile or Uruguay.

[jellowrestling]

Zelda, I had a long post which somehow disappeared, so I'm sort of reposting it. The points I made were:

A. Many of us have Mayhem on "ignore", because he is a rambling, nonsensical troll
B. Saying that Mexico can't be compared to the U.S. is about like saying Manchester can't be compared to Leeds. Texas cities like El Paso sit just across the Rio Grande river from Mexican counterparts. One example is El Paso (US) and Ciudad Juarez (Mexico). Ciudad Juarez has been basically a war zone for years, while El Paso has roughly an average amount of violence. El Paso residents have freedom of gun ownership, residents of CJ do not: draw your own conclusions.
C. As to Mayhem's slam on some of us considering gun ownership to be a "God-given right": Yes, we do. The U.S. is based on ideas of the Enlightenment, specifically the concept of "natural rights", rights bestowed by God, and not government. This was powerfully declared by Thomas Jefferson: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

"Unalienable rights" are a specific reference to natural rights (ala Locke), and the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution codify them in our nation's founding. The first two of those, considered the most important by our Founders, were the First Amendment (Free Speech), and the Second (Gun ownership).

One of the things that liberals here can't admit is that gun violence in the U.S. has dropped precipitously in the past 20+ years, even as gun ownership has reached record levels. The fact is that the mass of gun violence is black-on-black violence perpetrated by young males using illegally-obtained guns in the inner cities, usually by habitual criminal offenders. Liberals' answer is to restrict the right of ordinary citizens to arm themselves.

D. Everyone is happy when you show up here, and we always hope that you will stay around longer. You are a lovely person, and I hope that you have a very Merry Christmas.

[mayhem]

Going to go celebrate the 'real' meaning of the season. Will be back with hard facts.

[ralph]

only thing that matters is that Americans have the God Given Right to be armed !!

[GFB]

only thing that matters is that Americans have the God Given Right to be armed !!

..and that guys like Mayhem..don't.

[planosteve]

Every American has a constitutional right to own a musket.

[ralph]

even the most common American has the God Given RIGHT to be armed . No force though . its up to them and quite often we read about their demise in the newspapers .

[ralph]

and every American has the RIGHT to communicate using pen , ink and paper plus the USA mail service ehh Steve ??

[jellowrestling]

Every American has a constitutional right to own a musket.

What about the Kentucky Long Rifle?

[jellowrestling]

and every American has the RIGHT to communicate using pen , ink and paper plus the USA mail service ehh Steve ??

According to PS's logic, it has to be a quill.

[planosteve]

Every American has a constitutional right to own a musket.

What about the Kentucky Long Rifle?

Or anything else that predated the constitution.

[ralph]

and Actually , for the sake of 'nit pikin' , its actually the 'Pennsylvania long rifle' . Can't back that up at the moment but that is my understanding !!

[Zelda]

Zelda, I had a long post which somehow disappeared, so I'm sort of reposting it. The points I made were:

A. Many of us have Mayhem on "ignore", because he is a rambling, nonsensical troll
B. Saying that Mexico can't be compared to the U.S. is about like saying Manchester can't be compared to Leeds. Texas cities like El Paso sit just across the Rio Grande river from Mexican counterparts. One example is El Paso (US) and Ciudad Juarez (Mexico). Ciudad Juarez has been basically a war zone for years, while El Paso has roughly an average amount of violence. El Paso residents have freedom of gun ownership, residents of CJ do not: draw your own conclusions.
C. As to Mayhem's slam on some of us considering gun ownership to be a "God-given right": Yes, we do. The U.S. is based on ideas of the Enlightenment, specifically the concept of "natural rights", rights bestowed by God, and not government. This was powerfully declared by Thomas Jefferson: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

"Unalienable rights" are a specific reference to natural rights (ala Locke), and the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution codify them in our nation's founding. The first two of those, considered the most important by our Founders, were the First Amendment (Free Speech), and the Second (Gun ownership).

One of the things that liberals here can't admit is that gun violence in the U.S. has dropped precipitously in the past 20+ years, even as gun ownership has reached record levels. The fact is that the mass of gun violence is black-on-black violence perpetrated by young males using illegally-obtained guns in the inner cities, usually by habitual criminal offenders. Liberals' answer is to restrict the right of ordinary citizens to arm themselves.

D. Everyone is happy when you show up here, and we always hope that you will stay around longer. You are a lovely person, and I hope that you have a very Merry Christmas.

It's so annoying when a post suddenly disappears into the ether, it's always the one you have spent time and trouble writing too isn't it?

To answer your points Jellowrestling...
A...I always like to make my own mind up about posters.

B...yes unless you know certain areas it's always dodgy to compare one area against another. Even in Manchester which is tiny compared to some US cities, we have a divide, S Manchester had problems with black gangs and drug dealers a few years ago....the rest of Manchester did not.

C....If the laws re gun ownership works for you (and most others here I think) I certainly would never criticise your opinions. Just as I wouldn't question anyone opinion that for them it's a bad thing......everyone forms there own opinions on what they see, where they live, and how they are reared.

D...Thank you, I appreciate that. x

[ralph]

only problem with anti gun people is that they generally want to force their views on gun owners . I , as a gunowner don't care if anti gun people own guns or don't own guns . To me guns or 'no guns' are an individuals choice !!

[jellowrestling]

and Actually , for the sake of 'nit pikin' , its actually the 'Pennsylvania long rifle' . Can't back that up at the moment but that is my understanding !!

The first ones were made in Lancaster, PA, but it's wide use in Kentucky made it forever the "Kentucky Long Rifel".

[Red Oak]

and Actually , for the sake of 'nit pikin' , its actually the 'Pennsylvania long rifle' . Can't back that up at the moment but that is my understanding !!

The first ones were made in Lancaster, PA, but it's wide use in Kentucky made it forever the "Kentucky Long Rifel".

And they were a variation of the Germanic "Jagaer" Rifles.